Dear Foxy,

I agree that wars and conflicts exacerbated by religion are not necessarily caused by religion, but many conflicts are due to religious differences.

There would be no struggle in Northern Ireland or in Israel if it weren’t for religion. Northern Irish Catholics and Northern Irish Protestants are ethnically alike. You can look at a bunch of Northern Irish Protestants and a group of Northern Irish Catholics. You can’t tell one from the other by looks. The differences in their cultures are strictly due to religion. Each group has a history of conflict with the other group.

Jews came to Israel as a refuge from years of Christian persecution culminating in the Holocaust. Israel was chosen by the Jews because of the Biblical myth that God had assigned the land. Muslims claimed the land because it came into Muslim domination during the conquests of early Islam. If it were not for religious differences the land could be shared in peace. If it were not for Christian and Muslim persecution Jews would not be in Israel in large numbers. The fight for the same piece of land is justified by the different religious mythologies of the conflicting parties. The conflict seems to arise from religion because it does arise from religion.

The Crusades were carried on partially for other than religious reasons. However, without the religious leader, Pope Urban II, in 1096 calling for a Crusade there would have been no Crusades.

Sometimes religion may back a social movement that will make things better for the oppressed. In Australia the Catholic Church backed the formation of the Labor Party because most Catholics were working class at the time. However, Santamaria organized the Democratic Labor Party which broke off from the Labor Party. Catholic Santamaria supported the clerical fascism of Franco. That to him and other Catholics was more important than the rights of Labor. Pope John Pope II had no sympathy for “liberation theology” and did what he could to crush it. The preservation of the religious institution generally takes precedence over sympathy for the poor.

Jesus a ' Palestinian Jew'. Really Mr Jensen. Which modern day revisionist bible college thought that one up. I have heard the aboriginals say that Jesus visited the outback in person. Jesus being a ' Palestinian Jew' is just as made up as the ' Palestinian state'. Next thing you will be telling us that Jesus was transgender. Please if you are going to preach Christ do it accurately.

Dear David F.,

Saint Vincent de Paul Society - "Vinnies" is a Catholic
lay organisation that was introduced into Australia in 1854.
In Victoria alone Vinnies offers a wide range of assistance
including aged care and disability services, home visitation,
financial and food assistance, migrant and refugee support,
homeless accommodation, soup vans that support hundreds of homeless
people every night, centres for youth and overseas projects.
As well as homeless services the Society also provided cheap
clothing, furniture and other necessities through 619 centres or
shop fronts across Australia, which are also used to raise money
to support the Society's work. The total number of people
annually assisted by Vinnies is an extraordinary 1.8 million and
counting.

While the Society is primarily geared to service at the
coalface, Vinnies' leadership has been increasingly willing to
confront the structural issues that lead to poverty and
deprivation in the first place. Nowadays the Society's
leadership is willing to speak out. The Salvation Army provides
similar services. Both these organisations represent religion
at its best.

It is so easy to caricature Catholicism (for example) as a
self-interested monolith divorced from the wider community and
out of touch with the experiences of people. Many outsiders think
the church is one entity controlled from Rome with the pope
at its apex, the bishops as local managers and all its activities
hierarchically controlled. This is where Vinnies provides just
one contrasting perspective. It is a genuinely lay-run
organisation where clerical influence is almost non-existent.

It is almost forgotten that Catholicism is not a centralised
corporation, but a complex interlocking constellation of
different semi-independent entities, lay organisations, religious
orders, dioceses, parishes, schools, hospitals, and other
ministries, all with their own legal status, independent finances
and administration.

Saint Vincent de Paul is the largest Catholic charity. There are
many others. I won't list them all here. Suffice to mention
Father Chris Riley who began his work for youth in Sydney.
He founded and developed "Youth Off The Streets". A member of the
Salesians of Don Bosco an Italian-founded religious order
devoted to the care of youth.

cont'd ...

Dear David F.,

Thank You for this interesting discussion however
for me it's well and truly run its course.
Frankly I am tired and I see no point in continuing.
I understand that you don't believe in religion or
God. I respect that.
Lets leave it there.

Michael Jensen, thank you so much for the wakeup call. I think the message of Christ is truly about forgiveness and it is even a shame now that most Christian had really forgotten about the message of Jesus and until every one of us live our lives according to Jesus Christ i don't the unity can be establish

I strongly believe in God and in the teaching of Christ because aren't seen a great teacher like Jesus yet on earth.