As long as NSW has priority for the coal based power we generate I don't care about the sillyness of SA and Vic. The subs will move here; and a whole lot of other makers.

Oh, and also their young, effective people with the dolts remaining behind.

The NEM was never the world's most efficient energy market. SA's power privatisation exposed this fact many years ago, and the problem was only ever partially addressed.

This article's nothing more than an anti-renewables tirade, long on rhetoric and short on facts. For example:
"In its final analysis of the events leading to the September 2016 South Australian black-out, AEMO re-affirms that the failure of the wind generators was the cause."
The report, which is at http://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Market_Notices_and_Events/Power_System_Incident_Reports/2017/Integrated-Final-Report-SA-Black-System-28-September-2016.pdf shows that the failure of wind generators was NOT the primary cause (it is likely tornadoes were). The shutdown of some wind generators in response to multiple transmission line faults was merely one in a long chain of events. Its greatest significance is that the settings have already been changed, so the same sequence of events would not lead to a statewide blackout today.

It's highly misleading to claim battery storage would provide a buffer of just 4 seconds, as providing the entire state's power is not what the batteries are designed to do, and there are no circumstances at all under which they would do this. Nor would SA ever want to get 100% of our electricity generation from wind with battery backup: even within the limits of existing technology there are much more efficient ways to reach 100% renewables.

SA was right to refuse the Northern power station's offer to remain open, which appears to mainly be aimed at dodging cleanup costs. SA has plenty of gas (even though having to pay international prices for it has pushed up our electricity costs). And with Hazelwood closed, the new power station is likely to be profitable. But the continued refusal to go with solar thermal is of concern.

And AIUI SA's intention to override the AEMO allocation is to ensure the power we generate meets our needs before we export any to Victoria.

And the statement that "The cause of retail margin increase are solidly down to government regulations which involve costs that must be passed on" is dubious even before "disallowance of exit fees" is listed as one of those "costs"!

Here in front of our eyes, are the most " disconnected politicalls ", attempting in their brand of abductive logic, to keep the lights burning throughout their nation, ( not ours anymore)!
Guessing, guessing, guessing the future for this subsumed mad nation, that once was proudly Australia.

Aiden - care to tell me where there is a solar thermal working in Australia? There was one in Bridgewater Victoria but that went broke and now calls itself a test bed. It went broke after the taxpayer dollars stopped. I will happily visit one that is working. They have big media spreads and then just when they should actually produce something POOF! it all stops and the managers have vanished.
If it works then lets get the greens to use their super to build one but with no public money. That can never happen as all this renewable rubbish has wasted public money and beggared the taxpayers. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
Lets see the tide change with no subsidies and all you green drones exposed for the parasitic frauds you are!

It is a pity that the author and commentators do not explain how wholesale power is costed. Subsidies to solar and wind are separate. The Snowy is a special case.

The controlling authority estimates demand in five minute and half hour periods and generators are brought on line to meet demand. Each supplier receives the price per MWH of the most expensive supplier in each particular time period.

Because coal fired stations are low cost those stations are always on line to the extent they are available. Steam driven generators also have high inertia rotating masses so they help maintain a steady frequency.

Gas turbines can be run up to speed reasonably quickly but gas is expensive so these units also carry heavy standby costs as they may be on line only during periods of high demand when insufficient hydro power is available to meet the heavy demand.

The smoke and mirrors of a patent ideologue, who thinks home generated energy supply is a market!?

Before we let these carpet baggers loose, we had a public supply paradigm where virtually every state took care of their own and at taxpayer expense! A few right wing idealogues with a highly flawed ideological imperative, claim private enterprise could do it better!

And as we see in the failed outcome in S.A., that went well didn't it?

It's long past time we just stopped listening to these purveyors of the Emperor's new clothes and returned to a system that really did give us and all our industries the world's cheapest power?

And in so doing assured us of both jobs and growth!

As a de-privatised system and free of the demands of debt laden, profit repatriating, tax avoiding foreigner speculators and their obscene salary demands, we can return to the land of sanity and decisions based on empirical evidence rather than highly flawed ideological imperatives? And that evidence tells us that thorium is cheaper, safer and cleaner and if rolled out as local power, able to cut power prices by more than half and half again if not connected to a energy wasting gold plated grid!

John Howard would have even sold off the snowy, if he hadn't been prevented!

The national grid is a great white elephant that has all but assured the mass exodus of the manufacturing sector!

We need to listen to sane rationalists talking turkey about our energy supply, not some apparent carpet bagger's idea of a market and a captive market monopoly at that!?

The very basis of capitalism is competition, none of which is apparent in the covert market collusion, which is our current energy market?
Alan B.

"In a statement plumbing the depths of credibility, the electricity market manager, AEMO, maintains that  the closure of Hazelwood will not compromise the security of the Victoria electricity system nor the broader National Electricity Market (NEM) next summer.  Looking around it says that there are adequate supply sources available to cover the loss of Hazelwood’s 1600 MW of reliable baseload power."

Catching the wishful-thinking disease of our PM, and Victorian and SA Premiers, does not inspire confidence in AEMO's capability and credibility.

A thorium based energy supply, would have several things going for it! #1, we have abundant thorium resources, thanks to the fact that there isn't a national market for it that our dig it up and sell it politicians couldn't access?

#2, It's is easy to find via airborne geographical electronic prospecting as significant alluvial prospects! [And previously used as an indicator mineral. We have enough to keep the lights on and industry rolling for a thousand years and thousands more if we start to mine igneous rock.]

#3, because as much as 95% of this material is consumed in the reactor! It'll out perform enriched uranium by around 180+ refueling cycles!

#4, Thorium produces far les waste and that waste is far less toxic and eminently suitable as long life space batteries!

#5,Thorium is carbon free power!

#6, thorium is less radioactive than a banana, is fertile not fissile!

#7, walkaway safe molten salt thorium reactors can be tasked with providing medical isotopes and without shutting down the reactor, which works at normal atmospheric pressure! Ditto adding spent nuclear waste to safely burn and reburn it until the remnant half life is reduced to just 300 years!

#8, And have other nations pay us billions for the service!

#9, For the money Malcolm is willing to stump up for a pump up snowy expansion 2 billion plus, we could build 20 or so walk away safe, molten salt, thorium reactors?

We need around 2.5 billion to build a new coal fired generator, or comparable large scale solar thermal, (which also uses thorium and lithium fluoride salt as the heat transferring mechanism) or 5 billion+ for a traditional nuclear, [uranium fueled], reactor!?

What we have destroyed with highly flawed ideological imperative, privatise or perish, is affordable energy and our manufacturing capacity/sector!
Alan B.

Hazelwood officially lasted 46 years, lithium batteries last 10 years maybe. I read that the primary heat exchanger in a molten salt thorium reactor may need replacing every 4 years due to corrosion. A new design light water nuclear nuclear might last 60 years. The cooling pond, switchyard, transmission lines and some of the workforce at Hazelwood might suit a nuclear plant. That would be quite a shift from 1510 grams of Scope 2 emissions per kwh down to 12 grams.

What role Hazelwood fulfilled may take some blackouts or load shedding combined with power price rises to become clear. I'm not sure are politicians are capable of getting us back to the old days of reliable power.

“What role Hazelwood fulfilled may take some blackouts or load shedding combined with power price rises to become clear. I'm not sure are politicians are capable of getting us back to the old days of reliable power.”

For starters, Weatherill, Andrews and Turnbull are incapable of getting us back to the old days of reliable power.

Turnbull does not have the nouse to do anything. Look at the NBN. I think SA will Devore itself from the interconnector and go it alone.
Good luck to SA for looking after their own. They are not in the business of sharing their system with anyone. A E MO has run its race and lost.

Weatherill has now done a shifty deal with one of the big generators so they will guarantee electricity to South Australia first. Good idea, although it will cost buggerlugs Andrews his Victorian job.
I have to agree with some of the previous comments regarding the regulator but the real way to fix this is tell them any break downs/brown outs will cost ALL the executives their jobs. That is out the door with no golden parachute and no provision for any legal action.
Lets start a new way of executive action, you either perform or out the door! Of course public service salaries have to start being reduced not increased. Do not say "Pay peanuts get monkeys" We have been getting monkeys so let us start paying peanuts.

JBowyer,
AIUI there is one smallish solar thermal facility (without molten salt storage) in Port Augusta now. I think that's all, unless the experimental one at Liddell's still going.

Port Augusta's well suited to building a large solar thermal plant with molten salt storage. But there seems to be an anti-pioneering attitude holding us back. Despite working well overseas, nobody wants to be the first to fund one here.

IMO the government should fund the construction of one with concessional loans, but it should receive no operating subsidy.

______________________________________________________________________________________

doog, SA's certainly not getting rid of the interconnector. Trading electricity with Victoria is a valuable activity that benefits both states.

With Hazewood gone, SA won't buy as much electricity from Victoria, but will sell a lot more electricity to Victoria.

Molten salt Adian? Go wash your mouth out!

As every conservative or their shadows in labor, there's no such thing as molten salt, just coal or hydro!

And if we were first with anything the political masters of our political masters would go into meltdown?

Some of the things we could do with safe, clean, cheap, walk away safe, molten salt thorium nuclear power.

Make miracle cure medical isotopes and extract them from an operational reactor! Meaning their production might be doubled or better?

Maybe it'll happen when some politician needs a cure for incurable liver or brain cancer? [And sad commentary on our current crop of visionless idealogues!]

Add spent nuclear fuel and while the reaction is proceeding, without shutting down the reactor, and burn and reburn it until every scaric of energy had been very safely extracted.

And given there's heat to burn, use it to decompose water then reunite the hydrogen with Co2 to make alternative diesel and jet fuel,(done) or turn a gas turbine utilising any number of common everywhere present gases.

Those flares we see above every oil refinery are burning off wasted methane, which can instead be passed through a catalytically assisted conversion process to turn it into petrol replacing methanol. A dye added ensures that the flame is neither colorless nor odorless.

Moreover, every family makes enough biological waste, which if converted to methane in situ on site, to power the average domicile 24/7! And that would create a brand new huge long term industry needing skilled metal workers and copious steel!

Better they turn a blind eye, thunder furiously at the dispatch box about penalty rates and how to screw those with the least, to benefit further, those with the most, like say, profit repatriating tax avoiding multinationals?

It's all about the most pressing "ideological" priorities you see!? And tinkering at the edges without changing too much??
Alan B.

Taswegian. Molten fluoride salt is corrosive, be it in a solar thermal tower or walk away safe molten salt thorium reactor, unless paired with materials it doesn't react with, i.e., graphite some nuclear proof ceramics and a special metal trailed and not found wanting at Oak Ridge Tennessee, back in the 50-70's.

There's a doco on U tube with a blow by blow description of the assembly and materials used.

Kirk Sorensen, highly credentialed scientist seems to think we can run one for up to a hundred years with relatively minor maintenance. And claims he could build one for a 100 million?

How's that for a comparison with an equivalent coal fired power plant costing around 2,5 billion or your light water reactor, costing somewhere north of 5 billion? And you want a vastly more expensive one that might run using similar metals perhaps, and good for just sixty years? with the power supplied costing the average rube son 48+ PKH?

A light water reactor is almost the most inefficient moronic means available to modern science to generate power! Yet still produce materials that can be readily weaponized?

Is that why you prefer wasteful, waste producing, highly inefficient uranium? I can see you've put a lot of thought, research and study into your special subject!

Imagine if one were to walk into a showroom and take a butchers at the latest offering from detroit and say compare it with the latest from the land of the rising sun? Everything else being equal?

What are you going to choose the petrol guzzling yank tank doing around 5 miles to the gallon or the nipponese offering, doing better than 90! Cause that's the difference in coefficient between your preferred light water reactor and thorium!

Suggest you try google tech talks on U tube. And at least a dozen emminantially credentialed highly respected authorities, any one of who'll, know more than the combined knowledge of those posting here comparatively, in a total eclipse of knowledge/expertise? Like the visually impaired leading the visually impaired?
Alan B.

The ever-Green army of antediluvian knuckle draggers should thank their lucky stars they live on this Earth with the visionary Truth Teller (TT) =

me :)

Alan B.,
Solar thermal with molten salt storage has been developed for commercial operation overseas. Molten salt based nuclear reactors have not. Eventually they will be, but meanwhile your claims they're cheaper than everything else are false. They aim to be cheaper, of course, but so do many competing technologies.

BTW the molten salt used for solar thermal is completely different to the molten salt in a molten salt reactor.

And what oil refineries typically flare off isn't methane; it's sulfides. Those turn into sulfites (or SO2) when burned. That triggers asthma, but the effect unburned would be even worse. There might be a bit of methane flared too, but most methane in oil refineries is not flared.

And please learn to spell CO2 - it's really not that difficult!

We hear that the the manufacturer's setting on the wind farm turbines
was the cause of their failure.
It is said they have been changed to prevent this happening again.
Are these setting part of the protection against short circuits,
oversize voltage excursions, overloads and being off frequency caused
by other generators ?
If so fiddling with these settings, would it affect warranties ?
Are they a protection against damage ?

As far as the famous batteries are concerned, surely they are there
to enable a black restart. They are quoted as being 100 Mwatt.
Surely they mean 100 Mw/hrs. How many seconds or minutes would that supply.
They way it is being reported they are supposed to carry the load
when the wind stops one winters afternoon at 5pm !!
Rubbish !

You never get a straight story whenever solar, wind or any other renewable is in the mix. The One Nation Senator Malcolm Thingy has put the CSRIO on notice to give him the facts on renewables but that explanation will have more holes than a colander.
Molten salt, solar is all pie in the sky! Next year it will be cheaper than coal but our electricity continue to rise every year.
I just hope I am here to see the reckoning of all the promises to be taken from the Public Service and politicians pensions. They promised cheap power and gave themselves BIG pensions. Lets start a campaign to reverse all these pensions in line with increased costs we suffer.

Bazz,
I think the settings were to protect the damaged powerlines from further damage.

"As far as the famous batteries are concerned, surely they are there
to enable a black restart."
What a ludicrous conclusion! We managed a black restart without batteries last time. And we're trying to ensure there won't ever be a next time. Indeed that's one of the reasons for the batteries: to provide another layer of redundancy.

Another purpose of the batteries is to provide more power at the times when it's most needed, strengthening security of supply and reducing peak electricity prices.

And as I said further up the thread: providing the entire state's power is not what the batteries are designed to do, and there are no circumstances at all under which they would do this.

Scott Morrison waxed lyrical over the weekend, about tax cuts for business. But giving it to tax avoiding, profit repatriating foreign firms/foreign shareholders does little for us or investment?

Better a sane energy policy, and given that was so? The world's lowest costing energy!

Moreover, waiting for someone else to do it for us, a recipe for waiting for someone else to do it to us! Wakey wakey.

As long as these (asleep at the wheel) ideologues grip grimly to the reins of power, very little will change except the economically essential discretionary spending ability of the masses.

We have a 2 trillion and growing super fund! Invested anywhere else but here?

We will be chained like dumb dogs ro coal, negative gearing and other serve the privileged policies, which do very little to actually grow the economy? Unless decision makers are changed!

1% over a projected decade is hardly earth shaking or the product of thoughtful rationalists.

We could do so much better, starting with the rollout of the quite massive infrastructure deficit!

Fund it by making self terminating thirty year, tax free, government guaranteed bonds the mechanism for funding all of it! With aggrieved private enterprise able to tender to their heart's delight for any of it.

Always provided a transparent tendering process subject to agreed and signed off on, strict time and budget limits, linked to punitive penalties for exceeding either! That's public private infrastructure roll outs!

And with all that in place embark on new molten salt, walk away safe, thorium power stations, rapid rail links and new space age desalination, to get this country up and racing full steam ahead!

Every western style economy rests solely on just two support pillars, energy and capital!

And we need to be a lot smarter with both, lest we make them a veritable gift to (foundation white anting) price gouging, foreign players, with anybody else's national interest/economic sovereignty in mind.

National security alone demands no less from our so called leaders.
Alan B.

The way I see the battery is permanently connected. If there is a lul in supply the battery gets called upon. When there is an overload the battery obsorbing the supply. The battery is never depleted or overloaded.
Another word may be capacitor. If you can gues so can I.

"The battery is never depleted..."

Thank goodness for that! Just wondering tho' how often there has been a shortfall, compared with how often there has been a surplus, of renewable electrical energy?

If you can make up stuff, so will I. Here's an example of a battery that could solve a problem here or there; http://www.gen4energy.com

Whatever it does, the SA gov't will hide the true cost of its madcap quest through all manner of subsidies (the RET being but one) and creative accounting.

With the RET and everything already done and in the pipeline to nobble thermal producers, the competition that was to lower cost to consumers cannot evolve. Now, whether govt or private enterprise delivers power, the real cost to South Australians will be similar

A one way interconnector to Victoria or anyone that wants to buy it at the time. The alternative is to dump.
, which costs no one.