Sorry, AlanB and others, but I do not agree that Australia is or ever was a christian society.

That is, unless you consider a group of convicts, police, sailors and military types to be evidence of general acceptance of christianity.

Post-convict days, of course society changed but the truth remains - christians and Australians are two intersecting sets. Some are one or the other or both. Some, such as recent immigrants of other or no faith, or visiting workers or tourists are present in Australia by the millions, but who is to say that there is a single christian among them?

One could continue with other traits, such as drinking and gambling and being prone to skin cancer or having fair skin (or otherwise) - the list is essentially infinite, but one thing is absolutely true.

Thankfully, Australia is a democracy and thus mandatory religion is out of the question.

Australia is not, never was and never will be a christian society.

I respectfully suggest that commenters to this thread re-read all comments and replace the word (or implication) 'Christian' with 'Muslim' in all of them. What's sauce for the goose .....

As an atheist, I don't support any religious teaching, per se, in any schools. BUT I'm happy with the teaching, from the earliest grades, of basic ethics, morals, right and wrong, respect for all humanity, equality of men and women, and wonder at human possibility. And some of those stories may well be derived from some religion or other: 'love one another as brothers and sisters', for example.

As Alan B. suggests, of course stories, parables, fables, lessons, whatever, which celebrate human compassion, such as the Good Samaritan story - and similar stories in the Koran if they exist - should be taught and explored by children, as secular examples of human relations.

But specifically NOT by religious people, priests, imams, parsons, etc., (who would all have their own barrow to push, and can do that elsewhere) but by teachers - who should all have had some basic instruction in ethics, values and human respect.

Joe

McReal,

Sorry, but the 'Western way' and democracy is the firmly rooted in Christianity. That democracy is the gift of ancient Greece is more myth than fact. There was a 'sort-of' democracy, with few, if any of the freedoms of Christian, Western democracy we enjoy to day. Australia was based on Christian democratic principals. Nobody has to be a Christian to know that. Australia is mostly populated by Westerners, and will be into the foreseeable future.

I don't know where got "appeal to origins" from; I am not appealing to anyone of anything. I am speaking plain truth. I am not championing Christianity, I am giving facts.

I would need you to tell me how you think my "..reference to Islam is a red herring.", before I could respond to your claim.

And, I could not accept your assertion that "... a truly free society would not manipulate its citizens into this sort of indoctrination process" without knowing your views on the indoctrination by the Left of SSM, climate alarmism and family values, best left to the families, who are much more likely to guide their children on such things than they are to introduce them to Christianity, without which, one remains very ignorant.

I went to school in the 1940's when 'religious instruction' was mandatory and accepted. It was totally innocuous; we were not indocrinated, and we were all bored stiff. I attended church until I was 16, and allowed to make up my own mind after that. I have not since entered a church, except for weddings and funerals, and to admire the architecture of old churches in England. I believe in living a Christian way of life, but often fail to carry through. Most of all, I am glad of the knowledge, and I have no fears about religion, except Islam, which is far more than a religion. The people who fear or hate Christianity are the ones never properly exposed to it, who think Islam is like Christianity, although they never criticise Islam as they do Christianity. It's all about ignorance.

ttbn:

Thanks for the anecdote, but it is entirely beside the point.

Australia is a democracy. Our society is polyglot. Its historical composition and past social and educational practices are very much irrelevant to how education should be managed in 2016.

Sorry, mate, but as I see it, any interference with children's minds by clergy, paid or unpaid, under the banner of education, is not ethical. It is promotion of a lie and is thus the very antithesis of education.

If the proposal is for lessons in ethics, civics, current affairs or the like, then let's hear it! But please, not stories about god-bothering or receiving instructions from invisible friends and especially not during school time or on school premises.

Ttbn & JohnBennetts,

Ttbn, I agree with you that " .... the 'Western way' and democracy is the firmly rooted in Christianity. That democracy is the gift of ancient Greece is more myth than fact. There was a 'sort-of' democracy, with few, if any of the freedoms of Christian, Western democracy we enjoy today. Australia was based on Christian democratic principals. Nobody has to be a Christian to know that. Australia is mostly populated by Westerners, and will be into the foreseeable future."

John, I think you may have misunderstood Ttbn, you may not disagree as much as you think :) As with other religions, many crimes at associated with Christianity, but its saving grace - despite itself - is that geography and historical forces have always trimmed back the powers of its 'leaders', from Popes to Pastors, and allowed the development of ideas in every field, usually unintentional. Hence, eventually, the ideas of the Enlightenment as break-away movements from the religious bases which spawned them.

Yeah, I remember RI, usually late on Friday afternoons, utterly ineffectual, mainly because the poor minister was such an obvious ring-in, whose purpose was to give the teachers an early half-hour or so. And to keep us back unnecessarily for that same half-hour, for which we rewarded the minister concerned with sly and malicious criticisms of his cherished beliefs. A sort of blooding: I think one of mine in Darwin later became a Uniting Church Bishop or whatever. Great fun, all considered.

Cheers,

Joe

G'day John,

I accept what you say, although, as plyglot means many languages and English is the only official language in Australia, I'm not sure what you are getting at. We are certainly multicultural, but immigrants knew what things were like before they came here, and it is not them looking for us to change, but extremist, native-born Australians of the host culture with a sinister agenda.

I agree that NOBODY should go into schools teaching things that are not directly linked to academic qualifications and entrance to the workforce. All other things, including religion, social and sexual matters should be left to parents. Unfortunately, two generations of parents have abrogated their responsibilities, with the encouragement of governments looking for more control. Given the muck they want to teach to little kids too young to understand sexuality at all, let alone the preferences of 0.8% of the community, I am glad that things religous are also included. However, as their is noone teaching how to be a responsible parent, I guess we are both going to be disappointed.