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The Forum > Article Comments > Problems and limits for wind power > Comments

Problems and limits for wind power : Comments

By Tom Quirk, published 12/10/2016

It is a combination of the collapse of transmission lines, the extreme variations in the power output of wind farms and the stability of an inter-connect to the state of Victoria.

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Craig, wind turbines are asynchronous generators as expressed by the author. This limits their value as also explained in the article. We need large reliable synchronous generators to keep the electricity network stable. They don't have to be fueled with coal or gas but clean nuclear heat is looking like the best option.
Posted by Martin N, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:17:56 AM
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Hi Martin,
Sync is a separate issue, I was simply suggesting that we could minimise the variability of output on any particular site by installing a range of generators optimised for different wind conditions.

There are hard limits, of course: no wind means no blades being turned and very high winds require the blades to be feathered, so there's no getting away from some form of backup.

I'm also not quite sure why we aren't using DC for our turbines. Does anybody know?
Posted by Craig Minns, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:32:07 AM
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Wind generators are not only failing to help in storms but also in the majority of heatwaves when air conditioning demand skyrockets. Similarly solar PV doesn't cook evening meals after or while the sun is setting. In California thermal plant has to ramp up 13,000 MW in the late afternoon. Yet we pay a premium price for wind and commercial solar, now near the LGC subsidy cap of $90 per Mwh, for what is a non-premium service.

If the aim is low carbon electricity then the Renewable Energy Target is the wrong approach. The primary driver should be emissions reduction targets not quotas for political favourites. Wind power should succeed or fail on its merits ie low carbon electricity at an affordable price.
Posted by Taswegian, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:58:40 AM
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Perhaps these might be a better solution to the problem,
http://machinedesign.com/news/no-more-windmills-wind-catchers-use-venturi-technique-generate-power
although we will still need an equivalent amount of synchronous base load power to maintain a stable system. We will undoubtedly have to bite the bullet and produce nuclear power sooner, rather than later if we wish to close down coal or oil powered generators. There is no other technically feasible means of producing a synchronous base load system.
Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 12:10:20 PM
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Martin N has nailed it! But nuclear at $8.00 a watt? What?

Nuclear is only expensive because current practice is to just stop short of thermonuclear fission and try to hold it there?

And at considerable pressure meaning pressure containment vessels and purpose built containment in a highly reinforced building!

That's not for us nor the weapons spin-off or the enrichment decommissioning and so it goes!

All adding to the cost that makes conventional nuclear at least as twice as costly as coal!

And lets not mention a great big extremely vulnerable white elephant of a national grid or the captive market it hoovers/gouges money from!

Or gold plated electricity now too expensive for pensioners and most energy dependent manufacture and irrigation!

This was an event waiting to happen as was the black Wednesday fire storm started by a couple of fallen power poles!

We need to have a good long hard look at ourselves, the national interest and all the self evident advantages of localized power supply with interlocking markets that enable genuine/actual competition; from modest mass produced inside factories, thorium reactors!

To then produce the world's CLEANEST SAFEST CHEAPEST electricity, whether the wind blows or the sun shines!

We need to divorce energy from the market model and redefine it as an essential service! And an essential if we would become an economy that serves the people and one that once again makes things/ enables profitable production/processing/farming in a drought proof country!

That needs to become the smart country! Rather than one mired in exponentially growing debt! NOW WHILE STILL POSSIBLE!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 12 October 2016 12:46:40 PM
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Electric car charging could go major when and if oil prices rebound to unaffordable levels. My guess is that most EVs will be charged at home at night, not so much at daytime parked under a solar panel. Fortunately wind blows at night though not always which is why cherry farms near me have electric fans for frosty nights. If we're talking millions of EVs each wanting say a 10 kwh charge (for ~40 km travel) then that electricity production should be dependable as well as low carbon. Conceivably we could need 15% more electricity or as much as all current renewables produce. Some of that could be from more wind power but there would have to be a reliable alternative source.
Posted by Taswegian, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 1:08:14 PM
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