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The Forum > Article Comments > A 'kick in the guts'? > Comments

A 'kick in the guts'? : Comments

By Willy Bach, published 25/8/2016

'What would we think if thousands of Japanese wanted to descend on Darwin to celebrate the [19 February 1942] bombing of Darwin?'

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No further comments are necessary.
David
Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 25 August 2016 9:59:05 AM
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'What would we think if thousands of Japanese wanted to descend on Darwin to celebrate the [19 February 1942] bombing of Darwin?'
Did any Japs die in that event?

AIUI the Australians were in Vietnam to commemerate their fallen comrades, not to celebrate winning the battle. So perhaps a better analogy would be if former Japanese sailors and their relatives descended on Sydney to visit the graves of the midget submarine crew?
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 25 August 2016 10:50:04 AM
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Mostly agree with Aidan on this one, And wouldn't resent respectful Japanese war survivors, their friends and relatives coming to solemnly commemorate and honor fallen comrades in a conflict where they were the defeated foe!

Moreover, our history doesn't seem to include being kept in the chain of command battle strategy loop by our larger more aggressive allies? And probably true and par for the course from Gallipoli onwards?

What we need to keep out, from Gallipoli to Long Tan is the "heroic" gung ho disrespectful media and their ever present predilection for scandal and sensationalization!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:12:48 AM
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This writer is spot on on this episode in Vietnam.
However what's this about China and the refusal of them owning our power assets? What is he on about? Firstly the rest of Asia would not allow another country to buy their assets.
Still being a Green he has to insult and denigrate Australia and Australians every chance he gets! Disgusting matey. These racists need to be called out because it is racist for this idiot to denigrate Australia in this way. You can wallow in your own self professed guilt but keep the rest of us out of your grubby life.
Posted by JBowyer, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:20:39 AM
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Silly Willy just wanted to demonstrate his anti-Australianism.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:35:22 AM
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As a matter of fact, thousands of Japanese visit the Pearl Harbor memorial every year, in groups of 20-30 virtually every day. I've seen them there myself and saw nothing objectionable in their behaviour, though I'm told that there are occasionally individuals who behave somewhat poorly: loud talk and laughter, mainly.

For those who might not know, the Pearl Harbor memorial has been built above and adjacent to the USS Arizona, which is a war grave containing the bodies of many Americans.

But the Americans tolerate the Japanese visitors because we all know who lost the battle but won the war. The Viets could choose to take a similar view.
Posted by cato, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:42:19 AM
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I should also have noted in my comment above that the American attitude towards access to the Pearl Harbor memorial is typical of a tolerant open society. The Viets' attitude, on the other hand is typical of an intolerant authoritarian society. And Bach's article is just typical.
Posted by cato, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:56:26 AM
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Turnbull's lot seem to putting on their Second Hand Patriots' voices quite a bit lately, to save his Government.

Second Hand Patriots 1.

As the author points out Australia’s Minister for Veterans Affairs, Dan Tehan complained of "kick in the guts" on behalf of diggers. But many diggers felt/feel cheated by the "patriots" of past and present Aussie Governments.

Second Hand Patriots 2.

Yesterday Turnbull talked about Labor doubting our fine Federal Policemen as the AFP raided the Opposition in Parliament House.

Another Thing - Paraphrasing Howard - Its the right of Vietnamese to decide who comes to their country and what they do in it!
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 25 August 2016 12:04:34 PM
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The comment on China-electricity seems to be the last minute reversal as in Vietnam.
Japs lost 4 planes in Darwin bombing including 1 dive bomber so the losses may be the same as midget subs , 3 with 2 crew. Yanks are unhappy about a few Japs laughing at Pearl Harbor memorial so how would Viets feel about 3000 with Little Pattie singing and a dinner booze-up ?
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 25 August 2016 12:19:02 PM
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UQ must be giving away Masters if this is the standard for thesis.

The Author may need to do a bit more research to find that there are indeed Japanese memorials to their fallen war dead in Australia. He also need to stop reading war histories written by the Vietcong communist party chairman and get a bit of perspective.

Those who served and those of us that honor their service go to these battle fields to honor the fallen, not gloat over the dead.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Thursday, 25 August 2016 1:30:01 PM
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I don't see the problem. If Japanese people felt it was really important for them to commemorate the bombing of Darwin, I would not be too concerned about it, despite having a cousin who was killed in the event. It is not really a good comparison with Long Tan though. The Japanese only lost 2 airmen in the bombing of Darwin, fewer than either the Australians or Viet Cong lost at Long Tan.

Equally though, if the Vietnamese want to limit the numbers of Australians commemorating Long Tan on the spot, that is their prerogative, disappointing though it may be to Australians who want to be there on that day. After all it is their country.

As for this article, well. Perhaps the less said the better.
Posted by Agronomist, Thursday, 25 August 2016 2:07:00 PM
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There is no Japanese memorial in Darwin ( which cuts into profits of graffiti spray can sales). Was Little Pattie going to sing church hymns for the deceased at Long Tan?
Here are arrangements for the southern heroic escapees:
A 3000 strong contingent of Japanese loyalists will hit the streets around
Cowra Japanese War Cemetery and Shrine Area .
They will pack out The Mill Cellar Door & Function Centre with wartime songs by top geisha Mineko Iwasaki .
"Kimigayo" the national anthem of Japan will ring out over the sake bottles and Rising Sun flags.
not
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 25 August 2016 2:18:26 PM
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I agree that Australia is just a puppy dog to the warmongering america.

And the Vietnam war was a futile war, but another war in america's long and pathetically dismal history of war.

america is the most warmongering nation on the planet, and americans did not win the Vietnam war, like they have rarely won any war.

But that doesn't matter anymore, as long as america is at war, and being at war helps americans feel good about themselves (although they kill and injure a lot of people during their wars, which doesn't help other people feel good).

I also agree with the Vietnamese that Australians should not be using a battle in Vietnam as an excuse for a celebration and a party.

That would be the height of arrogance and americanism.
Posted by interactive, Thursday, 25 August 2016 4:15:48 PM
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The appropriate US memorial lists the names on a dignified marble wall - in US. Is there any site they made in Vietnam ?
Can't find it..
Maybe Aust has outdone the Yanks in americanism with this episode of
skiting. Horrible to think if Gallipoli had been a military victory ,
with Anzac cove surf club , Anzac Pub and whopper flag like Parliament with athletic contest to run up the ridge to the top.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 25 August 2016 4:44:14 PM
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An incredibly ignorant presentation of the relationship of Australia with Vietnam. Both sides could have handled it better, but Vietnam’s actions were rude and unjustified.

“The Australian Government will provide an estimated $83.6 million in total ODA to Vietnam in 2016-17. This will include an estimated $58.4 million in bilateral funding to Vietnam managed by DFAT.
Australia and Vietnam’s partnership extends across political, security, economic and people-to-people activities. Australians born in Vietnam represent the fifth largest migrant community in Australia, and around 24,000 Vietnamese students enrol in education institutions in Australia each year. Vietnam is one of our fastest growing trade partners, and is central to regional security in South East Asia. The country’s further development as a strong trade and investment partner is vital to our national interest and the region’s prosperity.”
http://dfat.gov.au/geo/vietnam/development-assistance/Pages/development-assistance-in-vietnam.aspx

Our government has demonstrated its goodwill, and should have been treated with more consideration.
The author is a green, so his niggardly and uninformed view is only to be expected
Posted by Leo Lane, Thursday, 25 August 2016 9:34:26 PM
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In my opinion this is very much a left-wing diatribe. If the Aussie Vets had gone to Long Tan the local people would have flocked to the Aussies saying that the communist government was a terrible government and they wanted out of there or that they wanted to be rid of this odious government. I believe that is the reason that they didn't want the Aussies there.
Posted by Gadfly42, Thursday, 25 August 2016 10:51:58 PM
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Long Tan was a defeat for the Vietnamese in which around 200 to 400 of their soldiers perished. It is not surprising that they are sensitive about that. To have hundreds of Australians turning up with flags, TV cameras and bugles, giving speeches and parading around with medals, would seen to them that we were celebrating our victory over them in their own country.

If the Commonwealth forces had been victorious at Gallipoli, but the forces of Islam had eventually prevailed in driving us out of Asia Minor, there is no way that a Muslim government today would allow us to celebrate the Gallipoli victory in their own country.
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 26 August 2016 4:03:32 AM
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Vietnam has always allowed visits to Long Tan , locals were interviewed this time and their government negotiated a visit on normal conditions after Turnbull asked for it.
French snub Battle of Waterloo 200 years after British defeated Napolean
Don't mention le war to French who still seem bitter about Napolean finishing second to the Duke of Wellington
France remains ambivalent about Napoleon's legacy and the battle has hit a raw nerve over whether it should ignore a tyrant or celebrate his military genius and fathership of France’s Civil Code.
That came to the fore earlier this month when Belgium minted a special €2.5 coin to mark the battle after France forced it to scrap a €2 coin saying it would cause an "unfavourable reaction in France".
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 26 August 2016 6:53:54 AM
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If they were coming to commemorate their people who died during the Darwin attacks, I wouldn't have any problem with them visiting Darwin.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Monday, 29 August 2016 11:57:02 AM
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As a Vietnam veteran I do feel for those who went to Vietnam with the intent to honor the memory of fallen comrades, and in particular I have empathy with those veterans who intended to treat the occasion seriously.

I have no time at all for those who in years past behaved like drunken fools – bringing dishonor upon themselves and upon the rest of us.

Likewise in the present context it is regrettable that, and probably in spite of the veterans' best intentions, the whole turnout looked like becoming an exercise in triumphalism; and yet, from what I can see, the veterans themselves quite probably meant no disrespect to their opposite numbers.

There was the exception of course like the veteran in situ who was reported as saying: "Bugger them, I should have brought my gun".

The Vietnamese are a kindly (and pragmatic) people; how else to explain the decision to allow the Memorial Cross to remain in place?

Is there a moral to this story? Yes, there is:

If ex-service persons (and family, etc.,) decide to go to Vietnam in future to pay their respects to fallen comrades, they will be visitors in a foreign country and different rules apply.
Posted by Pilgrim, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 4:49:42 PM
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If Vietnam won't hand over the Chinese oil-fields and the Chinese rivers of Hanoi then the memorial may be removed by China's army.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 5:04:08 PM
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