Thanks Don, you certainly got me thinking.

And thanks to all posters, a thoroughly interesting read.

Though I say so with tongue definitely in cheek Don, I think your essay can be reduced as follows:

"I will have two bob each way on the favourite!"

Who's the favourite you say ?

Answer: Progress !

Simple really !

After all, the idea of progress is just an idea - - - - isn't it?

Hi Pilgrim,

Here's another suggestion from an ex-Marxist, for what it's worth: if there is ever to be a 'better society', it must incorporate the best of the Enlightenment, democracy and freedoms. It must build on those, instead of going off in some alternative direction - which invariably (so far) has degenerated into totalitarianism and fascism.

Democracy may be imperfect - it may always be imperfect - but it's the foundation for whatever may improve on it.

And another thing: there will never be a Utopia.

Cheers,

Joe

Thanks Joe, I appreciate your comments, especially concerning Utopias.

One subject that may interest you, and totally off topic, is: "Shaping History through Personal Stories".

This was the title of the Annual History Lecture delivered in Sydney in 2002 by Tim Bowden to the History Council of NSW.

The link can be found here:
http://historycouncilnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2002-AHL-Bowden1.pdf

In that lecture Tim refers to the wonderful BBC Radio production: "The Long March of Everyman" first broadcast in England in 1971 and subsequently relayed here by the ABC.

I listened to that series and now kick myself that I didn't record it.

Perhaps we in Australia are overdue for something similar. What do you think?

Hi Pilgrim,

Fascinating account ! I've enjoyed everything Tim Bowden has ever done. But I'm a bit wary of a lot of oral history, unless it can be at least partly checked and corroborated. Rumours and hearsay, especially from someone with authority, carry a lot of weight and can influence policy and historical accounts. Entire books have been written based on stories that I suspect were basically fiction.

And since probably none of us - except you and Don of course - are above bending the truth just a little to support our arguments, one must often suspend belief until one has found some back-up. Which Tim Bowden did amply.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe. Sorry for the delay, I've been a bit crook.

I agree with your conclusion and suspect that, in any event, we are not, as a Nation, quite ready to to down this road - fascinating though it would be - particularly sorting sheep from goats - if you get my drift.

P.S. Courtesy will get you anywhere !

Best wishes

The Lefties = WELFARE for ALL for EVER!

Forget the cost cause the govt can always borrow more.

Never mind the AAA credit rating warning.