Aidan,

Grossly excessive spending did not keep us out of recession. That's just propaganda. The money's all gone now and what do we have to show for KRudd's historically hysterical extravagance?

Please give us some detail. How did the pink batts scheme deliver a nett benefit to the Australian economy? The over-priced school buildings? The now abandoned computers for schools? The NBN? The $900 cheques to the dead and to foreign backpackers already returned home? I'm prepared to concede that the $900 cheques had some economic good, but mainly to the benefit of television manufacturers in China.

But don't let me limit you, go ahead and make up your own list.

In what way did Australia "gain the benefit of what the money...[was]...spent on"?

Is there any level of spending which you would think would be prohibitive? Or does the world just keep getting better so long as people like you and your Lefty mates keep squandering other people's money?

As Margaret Thatcher said, sooner or later you run out of other people's money.

BTW, I'm sure the RBA will be crushed to hear that you disagreed with their interest rate strategy.

Yuyutsu,

I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that the establishment of a company, partnership or trust is equivalent to a "dirty trick". These are all legal and appropriate forms of business entity, depending on the circumstances.

In the same context, why do you smear accountants as "bludgers"? They are professionals who make an honest living by ensuring that their clients comply with the law. Otherwise, they lose their registration.

You may wish the taxation scheme to be any way you want, flat or otherwise, but, back here in the real world, people simply have to comply with the existing legal requirements.

You say, "Look, I don't know anything about economy and I don't give a hoot about economy."

OK, best to leave it to those who do. But please, let's not pretend that what you have written was merely "supporting" my comments. You're on a different track altogether.

When I went out to work in 1968 as a first year apprentice, company tax was 60%. today its 30% and falling.

Its about time somebody put the question to these people? What rate of tax would corporate Australia regard as fair rate of tax for business to pay and would they be prepared to give long term commitments to voluntary pay such a rate?

I am sick to death of the corporate world whinging like a dole bludger that their rate of tax is too much. How little must it be before its low enough?

On top of that they, demand and get, corporate welfare handouts left right and centre.

3-4 billion of tax payers money is going into building a football stadium on Packer family owned casino land in Perth. If that is not corporate welfare what is?

How much taxpayers money gets given to GMH, Ford and Toyota every coupla years?

How much corporate welfare did we hand out to the banks in 2008-10?

Refdrivsoc,

You may not have noticed, but Australian government handouts to the car companies ended under Tony Abbott's prime ministership, much to his credit.

Labor, on the other hand, was the car manufacturers' bottomless pit...well, no, they actually saw taxpayers in that role.

While one might sympathise with your objection to taxpayers' funding for some (private) developments, they do, at least, generate jobs and tax revenues.

Aidan, Calwest,

While it is true that only 1/3 of small businesses are incorporated, these are typically the larger and most profitable, and employing the most. The reasons for this are simple, being incorporated costs money to establish and to comply, and for people starting a business there is seldom justification. Similarly about 16% are partnerships, which exist for other legal reasons.

So the cut in small business tax will affect the majority of employees and turnover within small business and will encourage further investment, and employment.

Hi Shadow Minister,

Yes, agree. As I said in my first post on this topic:
"Numerically, the vast majority of businesses in Australia are small businesses." Numerically, but not necessarily in terms of turnover.

Some of the larger small businesses you mention are quite large and taken as a group include many businesses with multiple sites. Many, for example, are in the retail liquor and grocery sectors. They are, of course, still tiny when compared with Woolworths and/or Coles.

Coincidentally, on the subject of spending/not spending, the PEFO says this (via David Uren, The Australian):

"Treasury secretary John ­Fraser and Finance Department secretary Jane Halton used their Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Outlook (PEFO), which is an independent review of the budget required by law before an election, to call for greater commitment to controlling the growth of government spending…

“Without considerable effort to reduce spending growth, it will not be possible to run underlying cash surpluses, say in the order of 1 per cent of GDP,” they said

Cal,

If one cuts tax, there will be more business investment, more jobs, less unemployment, and more tax revenue. the reason that just about every OECD country has cut company tax rates is to boost growth, not because they want to throw money around.

The wealth that governments tax to provide services come from business and employees' income tax and punishing businesses results in less revenue.

The definition of small business largely depends on who you talk to:

For example, ASIC regulates many businesses that are 'small proprietary companies', which means a company with two out of these three characteristics, an annual revenue of less than $25 million, fewer than 50 employees at the end of the financial year, and, consolidated gross assets of less than $12.5 million at the end of the financial year.

The Australian Taxation Office defines a small business as one that has annual revenue turnover (excluding GST) of less than $2 million. Fair Work Australia defines a small business as one that has less than 15 employees.

Despite these differences, many regulators have informally adopted the definition of ‘small business’ used by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), which is a business that employs fewer than 20 people.