We are still talking about high speed rail because people like Rhosty run off at the mouth without proof of what they say.

Who would "self fund" a non profitable 'alternative' transport system for which no cost and profit figures have been proved?

Yes no problem with volcanic ash that can bring aircraft down but what about storms and floods that undermine bridges and piles involving rail lines?
What about kids or terrorists doing their thing with rail or the system?

Anyway, just show the cost versus profit.

Show the viability instead of waffle about IQ and verbal garbage.
That saying is very true, "what you say is what you are".

Give us some numbers, Rhosty, cost versus profit instead of waffle about IQ and pensioners.

It amuses me how people go on about fast rail, yet they forget a few simple facts.

1. Our labour cost are $30 per hour start up (value added cost) compared to a few dollars.

2. Our population is minuscule in comparison to most countries that have fast trains so the economics don't stack up. People are already whinging about parking and the likes, so I doubt they will pay for fast rail. No doubt travers will also have to pay for parking as well especially if your travel involves a stop over, similar to most plane trips.

3. The airlines will not sit back and watch their markets slip away, so a price war would be imminent and he who has the deepest pockets will win.

4. Until we rid our nation of the entitlement mentality, nothing like this will work because they want it for free as they have the attitude 'but I pay my taxes'. Toll roads going broke are a prime example.

5. It stands to reason that with such a small population, two forms of high speed transport will be competing and there will not be enough customers to feed both.

Dream on!

JF Aus,

Train ticket pricing is likely to be similar to the air ticket pricing, albeit with a lower cost to make up for rail's slightly lower overall speed. Prices would be much higher at some times of day than others. Many people would want to travel intercity by fast train (as overseas experience has proved) and the fast trains would also serve places that don't have good air services.

Spending money in one part of Australia should not preclude spending money in another part of Australia.

While not of great relevance to high speed rail, if rail replaces interstate trucks then nearly everyone's better off. Freight costs will be lower, so businesses will be more competitive so can afford to employ more people. And some trucks will still be needed to get freight from the surrounding area to the rail terminal.

Fast ships aren't usually commercially viable. AIUI the Spirit of Tasmania requires significant operating subsidies.

Australia's population is growing rapidly. Sydney to Melbourne is the world's third busiest air route, The population of our major cities is more than enough to justify high speed rail between them, and once that gets built many more people will choose to live in places along the route. As a long term investment it will be very profitable, though if they try to recoup their money too quickly they'll go broke like those greedy toll road operators. BTW Trains are not labour intensive.

Parking is unlikely to be an issue, as it will serve the existing main railway stations in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. And parking costs at intermediate stations are unlikely to be anywhere near those of our major cities or airports.

The competition from trains will make Sydney-Melbourne flights permanently less profitable. Though they will continue to compete for market share, they're more likely to direct their main focus to more profitable routes.

Of course Australia needs newly productive export product and revenue. By increasing connectivity, trains would enhance that not preclude it.

Adian: Train ticket pricing is likely to be similar to the air ticket pricing,

My guess is that you have never been on a long distance train. It costs $507 plus $96 for a sleeper, Brisbane to Cairns. The Ghan is nearly $2000. It's cheaper to fly even for Pensioners. God only knows what the Trans is.

Freight is the only thing that Rail is good for. It's the most economical way to transport good around Australia. The Townsville to one of the towns on the Western Australian Coast was planned 50 years ago. I have a map with the proposed line marked on it. Ending just short of the Coast. They couldn't decide which town would be the terminus. The Darwin to Bromilton to West of Sydney & on to Melbourne will eventually be built. I remember seeing some of the planning for it before I retired in 2000. Still it could be a long time before it's built.

I remember passing the Port Pirie Rail Yard in 85 & seeing the infrastructure for the Darwin to Adelaide line. One of the Workers there told me that all the Infrastructure had been sitting there for 20 years waiting for the go ahead & for the Government in Office at the time to claim it was their idea. Big projects take forever in Australia.

As one of the attractions of high speed rail is that the trains don't stop very often, why would any one want to live between stations?

Aiden, even if you do send freight via rail, you still need trucks to take it to the destination, besides, once you remove the bulk of the trucks, those left will have a monopoly and charge accordingly.

Hi speed rail in this country where we can no longer afford to build anything is simply a dream.