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The Forum > Article Comments > Is the Australian Infrastructure Plan on the money? > Comments

Is the Australian Infrastructure Plan on the money? : Comments

By Alan Davies, published 26/2/2016

Infrastructure Australia’s new plan contributes to the policy debate. Good. What we need now is selection of good projects and concerted action to improve the nation’s infrastructure.

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The article is there for me but the printable version works.

I can only imagine that the very funny TV program "Nation building" forms a core part of "infrastructure Australia's" Operating hand book.

Their vision document has nothing that a year 12 student could not have pull together and has been almost completely dysfunctional in assisting any projects actually happening. Am I surprised...no.

It seems to me to be a funding subsmission for more naval gazing but no inovative solutions.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Friday, 26 February 2016 11:11:12 AM
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We are one of very few nations not to opt for self terminating thirty year, government guaranteed bonds.

Other nations have and use this money to build income earning infrastructure, as opposed to mindlessly privatizing everything not nailed down.

We have two trillion in our super funds!

A wise government would opt to create that investment vehicle here, and attract most of this money back here; and at work building the national estate.

The income could even be tax free, and doable given little of this money or the income it generates is paying any tax now!

As they say in the classics, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing!

Half a trillion would build a rapid rail link down the entire length of the eastern seaboard, and given it is one of the busiest air routes in the world, guaranteed to earn the profit needed to service the loan money.

The Toowoomba range crossing would be another of those projects that earn good revenue from day one, always providing the administrators weren't too greedy. And still able to earn a decent quid thirty years down the tack when all the capital had been paid along with the remaining service obligations.

A national nuclear powered fleet of very fast roll on roll off ferries, could link with new rapid rail links to get our trade goods into Asia, all while massively reducing turnaround time and any handling.

Bulk shipping remains one of the most profitable business models in the world. Meaning we could put those two trillion to work right here in this economy, and reap any tax from the accompanying spin offs.

A two lane inland canal is another possible project that would completely transform this nation, our economy and indeed, our climate!

Two lanes would enable the huge northern tides to be harnessed to move shipping in and out, as well as water, meaning solar thermal powered desalination plants could be dotted along the entire length without creating a salt laden dead sea.

Just add ultra reliable water and our inland deserts will grow money!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 27 February 2016 12:05:42 AM
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Alan has again brought up the lack of forward planning and imagination within the government structure. Years ago two of us worked out how Very Fast Trains could be made to work in OZ (the secret was "New Towns" along the route) - the need for straight lines require a new route.

Of course no one listened.

I've sent the proposal to Alan at his Email address.
Posted by don't worry, Sunday, 28 February 2016 6:24:14 AM
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Very fast trains could be built along straight lines, if the line was either in shallow covered trenches or tunnels.

While that would cost more? It would likely cost less than resumed densely populated urban land.

Even so, some still rural land could be resumed and then in part rezoned in order to create brand new satellite cities down the entire length of that route.

And in the entire process, pay down most of the capital debt!

Putting the line underground just makes sense, given trains and cars or cattle what have is not a good mix!

Neither are trains rocketing in opposite directions on a single line!

If we are to invest in very fast trains, we should go for VLT technology, and build something we can power with large scale solar thermal technology or cheaper than coal thorium.

And indeed make the trip between our major capital cities quicker than air, and directly from C.B.D. And indeed, using only locally available energy/fuel. Which of itself, will quite massively reduce the costs of travel.

If we had this system, it could be limited to one train per single loop? Meaning no other train would be able to interact negatively!

And would mean passengers would need to transfer, and hardly any inconvenience for a guarantee no other 900 klm plus train could ever impact another.

Similarly, monorails could provide connectors, and given they also operate on a closed loop, limit the opportunity, for collisions. Or indeed, eliminate them as any form of gridlock or negatively impact on emergency vehicle movements.

Moving walkways and escalators would eliminate any bottlenecks and most of the transfer inconvenience?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Sunday, 28 February 2016 10:35:23 AM
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Our problem has always been too larger country, with too smaller population, spread over too vaster areas.

Whereas you build a high speed rail network say in Japan, spanning for 1000KM, you may potentially serve ten's of millions of people, whereas build the same network here (for a much higher price) you might be lucky to service a potential catchment of just a couple of million people. The numbers simply don't stack up. Besides, how many private ventures do you need to witness going broke in this field before the message sinks in? Those who design the likes of tunnels get paid, those who provide the false and misleading projections also get paid, but the investors get screwed and they are now gun shy and who can blame them.

The other huge problem here is the entitlement mentality of so many, as they want the services, but complain about the toils, or simply avoid the services. This despite the tax payers being burdened with the likes of massive welfare and immigration expenditure, much of what was unplanned for and unbudgeted for.

So in other words you can pretty much have what you want,but you cant have it for nothing and support all of the hanger onners of this era that we support today.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 28 February 2016 11:13:35 AM
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A very fast train (VFT) passenger train can never even begin to work for Australian cities given numbers and distances. The trick is freight. 400 road freight trucks a night run between Sydney and Melbourne.

Why not put the Sydney to Melbourne freight on trains? .. too slow, overnight freight is 9 hours (by road) and over 12 by rail, and that's not overnight. Then there is the additional problem of large accessible freight terminals in Sydney and in Melbourne - they are simply not there.

So freight, plus passengers, plus links to new cities built along the VFT route, plus tourism, plus defense - well, if all are put together that may work.

Certainly, the Chinese are gambling on all that (plus geopolitics) for the new silk road.
Posted by don't worry, Sunday, 28 February 2016 12:31:59 PM
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Sydney to Melbourne inclusive has a population of about ten million. The numbers do stack up, but it's a long term investment – they could go broke if they tried to recoup the capital cost too quickly (the way some road tunnels have; most of the complaints about the tolls are valid.)

There s some scope for the VFTs to carry express freight, but improving the existing railway is the best way to get more freight to switch from road to rail. At the Sydney end where the problem is worst, they're building a large accessible freight terminal in Moorebank.
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 28 February 2016 6:27:14 PM
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The eastern seaboard is one of the busiest air routes in the world, and given a VLT could be plying that route for lower fares and over less time, CBD to CBD, there is absolutely no doubt it will be heavily patronised.

A two lane inland canal that utilizes huge 40 foot northern tides both in and out, to create a one way circulating current, quite massively shortens the shipping distance to our Asian customers, and reduces the amount of fuel need to ply the international waterways, has to be a winner, and given it also becomes an extremely reliable source of new and reusable water, a real money earner.

Somebody once said that land was the source of all wealth! Wrong!

Water is the source of all wealth!

And it's hard to lose money on energy projects.

And given we know from overseas experience, very large scale solar thermal projects can be rolled out for comparable costs to conventional coal fired systems, and match them as peak load service providers, have to be a winner, given the fuel is costless and endless.

Given we seem to be governed by so called corporate failures, little wonder there's no future vision in either major party?

And populated by folks whose only answer is to sell the farm and or wait for enterprising foreigners with huge debts, to do it for us; and in so doing,take all the risks?

And nothing could be further from the truth.

We pay down these debts with our patronage, and by paying a premium at the checkout! Time for a rethink and new ideas!

There are plenty of folks who know all the reasons things don't/can't work or are impossible, that's why we still live in caves, wear animal skins and hunt down all our food with a stone tied to a stick!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Sunday, 28 February 2016 10:12:12 PM
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Rhosty, is that multi trillion dollar canal to nowhere all your own idea?
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 29 February 2016 1:02:19 AM
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