I'm sure it would be helpful to publish the assets of the aboriginal 'leaders'. Most of the people speaking for 'the most disadvantaged' are probably millionaires because they have all been given lucrative government 'jobs' for many years. Noel Pearson rails against 'sit-down money' but his income is from the same government though vastly greater. Even troublemakers suddenly become 'professors' just so they shut up so they don't lose their cushie high-paying job. The entire system is baloney & it will never improve until aborigines are Australians like all the other citizens of Australia.

Surely its possible to 'close the gap' for indigenous peoples in general AND focus on those 'at the bottom of the pile' as well. Surely it doesn't have to be 'either/or' - unless you're obsessed with ever-smaller government and always finding any excuses to cut...

There is a lot to be said for the common sense of this article. Many, many aboriginal Australians manage their lives as well as anyone else, and it must be remembered that many aborigines are PART aborigine and look and act accordingly with the white part. It's the 'bush' aborigines who are disadvantaged; not the 'bitzers' bludging on their traces of aboriginality. Turnbull and his Lefty mates are merely enablers for these bludgers, at our expense. 'Closing the Gap' is just more waffle - the only thing Turnbull is good at.

A good few years ago I worked with an Aboriginal chap. A good worker too. Then he got a job with the Aboriginal & Torres Straight Agency. This was in the late 80's. I ran into him a few years later & asked him how the job was going. His words, "I get a new car every 2 years, $76 Grand a year, & I all I have to do is drive out & listen to them whinge for a couple of hours, write a report, then go home to a Rent Free home. If I solve their problems I'll be out of a job."

I ran into a couple of infamous ladies in Townsville & asked them to get some Portable Toilets for the Homeless Aboriginal living under the Rail bridge over Ross Creek. The area stank like you'd never believe. They abused me & called me a Racist. If they did give them Toilets then these two would have anything to condemn ""Whitey." for would they? & they were very vocal about it. Both of these ladies have been done multiple times for misappropriation. They just, Rename the agencies & swopped places & started all over again.

That's where the money goes, & that's just Townsville.

But I guess it's not Politically Correct to say that, eh.

Being aboriginal isn't a disadvantage in itself. In fact it is actually an advantage these days. I should know, I have a multitude of aboriginal grand and great grandchildren and the services available to them far outweigh the services available to white children.
The problems arise because aboriginal people either don't take advantage of all these programs and services or they have extremely poor work habits when they do get jobs.
It wasn't always this way. Back in the 70s, before activism had reached its height, aboriginal people in the north at least were working to the same standard as their white counterparts, for the same pay, and sending their kids to school everyday.
Apart from those on the missions, who were kept in an infantile state by paternalistic policies destined to stunt their growth.
Today's problems arise from those who wish to keep aboriginal people in cultural zoos in remote communities to justify some personal need to feel different to everyone else.
The soft bigotry of lowered expectations is truly at work in this country, and until we see " aboriginal" problems as simply human problems, nothing will change

Thanks, Sara, that certainly needed to be said: that the money and jobs etc. go to those who are best able to take advantage of any opportunities.

Tristan, as ttbn writes just below your post, there is a huge proportion - I would say it's better than 60 %, perhaps 75 % - of indigenous people who are not in need of any government assistance at all. They're doing okay, and have done for at least a generation.

So where does that thirty billion go ? That's a lot of perks, a lot of no-work 'jobs'.

Not that genuine income is lacking in even the most remote areas either: standard welfare payments, plus royalties (minerals, conservation park fees) plus low rents may be partly offset by high food prices, but let me know when you hear of a plethora of vegetable gardens, orchards, chook yards, dairy cows, across the northern remote settlements, providing the basics for 'self-determination'.

If I were Turnbull or Scullion, I would be assessing every program funded through tat thirty billion dollars, and immediately scrapping every one which has not shown the slightest improvement in the past year or so. I know a couple that they could start with .....

Jayb,

Perhaps the degree of Indigenous affluence could be measured by the rate at which Indigenous bureaucrats, academics, etc., enrol their children in private schools. I think people would be amazed and somewhat appalled.

Cheers,

Joe

I agree with a lot of what this author states, but I doubt much will change for Aboriginal people in general until at least the next generation.

For all that many go on about these 'advantages' that Aboriginals have, as opposed to everyone else, it sure doesn't look like the majority are living well and healthy does it?
Loudmouth I would argue with your figures about those doing well and say it is more likely only about 20% living well off government jobs/payments.

Poverty and early death are constants in most Aboriginal lives, for whatever reason.
I don't know what the answer is, but sitting down for yet more 'discussions with Indigenous people' is not going to do it. Way too much money has already been spent on discussions and meetings.

Big Nana: the services available to them far outweigh the services available to white children.

Exactly.

Big Nana: The problems arise because aboriginal people either don't take advantage of all these programs and services or they have extremely poor work habits when they do get jobs.

Exactly.

Big Nana: It wasn't always this way. Back in the 70s, before activism had reached its height, aboriginal people in the north at least were working to the same standard as their white counterparts, for the same pay, and sending their kids to school everyday.

Exactly. I come from Ayr originally & before the 70's Aboriginal people were hard working & respected.

Big Nana: Today's problems arise from those who wish to keep aboriginal people in cultural zoos in remote communities to justify some personal need to feel different to everyone else.

Unfortunately most of these people are the Aboriginal CEO's & the educated ones running the Agencies.

Big Nana: and until we see " aboriginal" problems as simply human problems, nothing will change.

Exactly, but you won't get the Agencies CEO's to let go of the reins. They fight like hell to keep their lucrative perks. Any suggestion of change will be greeted with a cry of Racism. Then all the PC, Greenies, Educated Lefty Latte Set will be out in Sack Cloth & Protesting in the streets.

Excellent article, Sara, but sadly it will be largely ignored by many Aboriginal activists who want to continue the black armband view of Indigenous history which seeks to make Exdigenous Australians feel guilty for past wrongs without wanting to solve problems in collaborative, constructive ways.

Hi Suse,

This year, around eighteen thousand Indigenous people will be enrolled at universities, about two and a half times what it was twelve years ago. As a rough measure, they will make up about 1.65 % of all domestic students - two-thirds of what parity would be: 2.4 %.

Very few Indigenous university students are coming from remote communities (which points to a huge job for those Indigenous academics, smug in their ebony towers, if they are ever going to be of any use to their people in providing pathways from remote areas to university).

66 %. Of the remaining 34 %, I would suggest - as Big Nana has pointed out, on the basis of her very long and rich experience in remote areas - that, financially, people in remote areas aren't doing too bad. Yes, at the cost of productive lives and of numbing boredom, addictions, poor diet, lack of any exercise, and brutal violence. But that's their choice - who are we to impose our values ?

I fully agree with you, that ".... sitting down for yet more 'discussions with Indigenous people' is not going to do it." As for 'consultation', I think we will discover, to our shock, that what many Indigenous people want in the coming Referendum is more stuff, more benefits and services, and less responsibility, less requirements to get their kids to school, to look for work, to stop bashing their wives and girlfriends (look at the terrible incarceration rate ! Poor blackfellas!), etc. 'Consultation', yeah right.

An article in today's Australian was slamming a proposed work tax on back-packers, specifically those picking fruit in Victoria's Goulburn Valley. There are many Aboriginal people living in towns in the Goulburn Valley. Perhaps they could pick up the slack if back-packers aren't available to do simple work like fruit-picking.

Nah !

Cheers,

Joe

There are two disparate groups among our indigenous people, the 'have's' and the 'have not's'. By and large, the have's are by far, the smallest, most elite group, and generally, the most vocal in demanding their 'rights'. Some of these individuals can only be described as parasites, subsisting on the adversity of their brothers and sisters, and should reside at Her Majesty's pleasure, in Long Bay.

As a former relieving police sergeant in the bush, it's the remainder, the 'have not's' that concern me. These are the poor buggers who live in dry creek beds, under old railway bridges, and have the highest preponderance to hang themselves. They drink to the point of absolute stupor, take any drug that will desensitize their minds, and yearn for that one simple courtesy and validation that always seem to elude them, that of 'respect' !

Regrettably, some of these poor buggers, when heavily inebriated, will fight one copper, or one hundred coppers - the result is always the same...upon return to sobriety comes misery and more misery, and even less 'respect'?

Remove the element of 'respect' from the black man, and he'll die, figuratively at least, but he will die?

O sung wu picks up on an idea first raised by an early commenter, Tristan Ewins, involving false binaries and conclusions.

The factor missed by most, as usual, is to do with the traumatised and dysfunctional state of indigenes at the bottom of the heap, imbued with the deepest sense of demoralisation.

The notion that funding is cut has always been a base notion proliferating from orgs like the IPA, devoted exclusively to pushing the greed=obsessed demands of the ultra wealthy, even to the extent of destroying so many other people through removal of essential services.

'If I were Turnbull or Scullion, I would be assessing every program funded through tat thirty billion dollars, and immediately scrapping every one which has not shown the slightest improvement in the past year or so. I know a couple that they could start with .....'

coe on Loudmouth you know that Turnbull/Rudd is all about spin and little substance.

Hi Paul,

Aboriginal people in remote areas are usually on their own land. Often, they've never been off it, or have ever been aware that somehow they weren't on it. The land has always been theirs, it is still theirs, and they are still on it. So what's the cause of their 'deepest sense of demoralisation' ? What is traumatising them ?

Meanwhile, people in the cities are often forging ahead, despite all of those dreadful historical forces that you cite. How come ?

Could it be the infantilising effects of lifelong welfare, the segregating effects of decades of policy, that are demoralising them ? Could it be that the ghastly effects of being stuck, powerless, in hole-in-the-wall settlements, with violence and abuse accepted as normal, have traumatised them ?

So what to do ? Surely, work, effort, gainful employment, has to be part of the solution ? And if so, then education for the children, the young people of tomorrow ?

Question: does anybody have the right to do nothing all their lives, expecting the outside world to support them in the manner to which they have become accustomed ?

For a short time, I lived in a community, and it struck me that, although almost all of the men worked (it was a while ago), almost none of the young women had ever worked, or would ever work, a day in their lives. The older women, the grannies, had worked for years when they were young, picking peas and oranges and cutting apricots.

Most of the young women are gone now, and so are a lot of their kids. Their one and only lives, finished. Their only contribution perhaps was to create the next generation, to do much the same as they had done. Some truly beautiful people, content not to do anything much but raise kids, and grow old at forty. So much potential down the drain.

[TBC]

[continued]

Perhaps you are at least partly right - that must be a demoralising life. Perhaps it's the residual Marxist in me that says that work can liberate and give meaning to lives. But one doesn't have to be a conservative to believe that there is too much, far too much, waste of human beings in remote settlements. Should the next generation go the same way ? And the next ?

Joe

Loudmouth, I appreciate a serious effort this time, but the phenomena you are decribing also is impacting on many blue collar white communities, it is not a race issue in some ways.

Thing is, if we have driven out a generation or two onto welfare while jobs are automated, offshored or fed out to 457 visa workers, while revenues fall because the ultra rich tax dodge instead of paying their dues, where are local workers, or people of any race, to go?

Where exactly are people who have lived their lives in small hamlets or communities heading? The cities will kill them as quickly.

I think the problem even though it's had billions thrown at it, are aboriginal elitists, who are sure they know best!

And given their involvement and outrageous nepotism, we still see children that are not only not safe; but returned to the very same environment time after time, and then we wonder about the high suicide rate amongst aboriginal minors!

Throwing money at the problem has resulted in housing which can cost four times the accepted norm in rural and regional Australia?

I've had enough of the endless excuses, and the point blank refusal of some folks to own their own behavior, but try to sheet it home to white colonists who arrived here over two hundred years ago!

If what you are doing isn't working, you need to stop doing it.

There is not a black way or a white way, just a right way.

And that needs to instil a notion in parents that they are primarily responsible for the way their kids turn out, and attend school etc!

As for the high incarceration rate, and mostly for petty crime, why haven't we persisted with diversion programs and boot camp type strategies.

For our indigenous Australians, why not make it like walkabout and the instilling of traditional knowledge around survival.

Always providing it doesn't include traditional buggery or pedophillia!?

And that has to mean some filtering to eliminate persons of less than good and trustworthy character. We just don't need folk being damaged or brainwashed about the evil whites and their past practises.

Times have changed and inherent attitudes and blame shifting needs to change with it. Doing what you've always done and expecting a different result is insanity!
Rhrosty.

O sung Wu and Paul Walters are right. Many Indigenous people, and other poverty stricken people too, don't have the education or the up-bringing to even be able to seek out a job, let alone stick at it.

And let's be honest here, how many jobs for indigenous people are out there, even after they have had a Uni education Loudmouth? Unless they are going for jobs at the Aboriginal Medical Service, or the Aboriginal Legal Service, they wouldn't get a look in against non-Aboriginal applicants.

So what do we expect them to do?
They aren't going away, and they are fellow Australians who need help, so why isn't that happening? Education and support is needed by this government to create jobs for these and other long term unemployed, otherwise nothing will change.

The Aboriginal Services go out into their Community & stir up the gullible. That's how they keep their lucrative jobs. They do a dam good job of it too especially on the Drunk, Drugged up, brain dead City ones & their Flags, Signs & filthy language. The ones that have been living in the cities since 1788, their Parents, were doing OK & would have been doing even better now. We have the highly Educated Aboriginal CEO's to blame for this latest lot of misfits. Since the 70's the City Aboriginals have gone backwards stirred on by the Aboriginal Services CEO's for their own gain.

Wow JayB, I didn't know you were so knowledgable about Aboriginal services?
When was the last time you spent time with their staff?
I would have thought you wouldn't be anywhere near them...

If you read my earlier Posts you would know I have a lot of Mates in the Aboriginal Services in various places. Townsville, Mackay, Rocky, etc,. That's where I get my information from. Dearie. Besides I have a lot of Aboriginal mates from my Army days & some of them greet me excitedly when they see me in Townsville, which isn't often these days. I Just lost a dear one the other day. Harry Mimi. He had more than 600 phone calls from past mates in the 2 weeks before he died. He was infamous around Rocky & well liked. Lot's of Abo & Islander mates from the Railways too. I've been remembered fondly I'm told last time I was up that way.

So SOL you're outa line here 'cause you wouldn't know & you futile assumptions are so wrong.

JayB, I wonder would these so called mates still be that keen if they knew how you talked about them on this forum?
Would you call them Abo's to their face? Dearie...

Hi Suse,

“And let's be honest here, how many jobs for Indigenous people are out there, even after they have had a Uni education Loudmouth? Unless they are going for jobs at the Aboriginal Medical Service, or the Aboriginal Legal Service, they wouldn't get a look in against non-Aboriginal applicants.”

Hey, that's MY point. I've railed against the funnelling of Indigenous graduates into Indigenous units and programs, like it or not, for many years. Back around 1989, at the Uni I was working at in Indigenous student support, the senior management released some funds and asked for proposals. I wrote up a proposal for an Indigenous Employment Placement Officer, to monitor finishing students and line up positions for them, and to keep monitoring their fortunes to make sure their employment wasn't short-term.

Of course, that idea got knocked on the head, totally ignored in fact, probably because the powers that be were in education, not employment, so the proposal probably baffled them. Clearly also, even at that time, when most Indigenous students were enrolling in mainstream courses, they would be likely to seek mainstream employment, which was a no-no for Aboriginal 'leaders', tantamount to treachery.

So yes, I remember a lovely young woman who had graduated in Secondary Science Teaching and when I approached the education department about employing her, they were terribly regretful, bitterly sorry, etc. etc., but there weren't any Aboriginal secondary schools in SA, so sorry, piss off. She got a job as a social worker.

On the other hand, I recall some companies, and the Engineering Union, getting in touch to ask if there were Indigenous graduates coming out, who might be interested in cadetships.

So there's a huge task for any fair-to-middlingly competent Aboriginal 'leader' [supposing such exist] – to devise long-term programs, and appoint staff dedicated to find employment for any trained Indigenous people, in the fields that they have graduated in and make sure they aren't spat out after the funding

[TBC]

Loudmouth, they are all absolutely MY points :)

What is the point in the government forking out big money in scholarships putting all these Indigenous students through Uni if it is just for show? Are they saying 'hey look at us giving education to the poor Aboriginals, aren't we fabulous?', when they know damn well that the odds of long term employment in their chosen field is low?

When I was working in Aboriginal health, I met a young bright female Aboriginal health worker who spent her days chasing elderly Aboriginal clients in the community to remind them to take their medications. She had two degrees under her belt, including psychology, but was truly downtrodden after spending 2 years trying to find a job in her chosen field. She never even got to the second interview stage.

We can't just focus on providing 'Aboriginal-friendly Employment' because a lot of these people don't want those sort of jobs. They want to be considered for any job, just like everyone else that is qualified from Uni or Tech colleges.

Mostly, I would think it is long term preconceived ideas of Indigenous behavior that precludes them from many jobs, which is inherently racism.
Again, I don't know what the answer is...

[continued]

period. 'Leaders appointing dedicated staff' ….. ah, there's the rub: they would appoint their mates, their relations maybe, but not dedicated staff. So yet another potentially valuable position converted into a no-work salary-burner.

But as you suggest, Indigenous graduates are not going away, for the convenience of their 'leaders'.

Re your latest post:

Part of the problem may be that nobody, NOBODY, ever talks about Indigenous success at universities - and I would suggest that if the equivalent of a fifth of an age-group is graduating from university, that's success. And where else is there any comparable Indigenous success ?

Perhaps that's the racism of low expectations raising its vile head yet again, as well as the pig-ignorant notion that all real Blackfellas live in the safely remote areas, nowhere near Balmain or Carlton. So, for the chattering classes, it's just inconceivable that Indigenous people might be going to uni, let alone graduating. But they are, doing both. And there's no mileage for Indigenous 'leaders' to point out the success of forty thousand, even if they knew of it, or of what it signified.

Indigenous 'leaders' are just as much at fault: if they know anything at all about the fields they have been parachuted into to do limitless damage, surely it is that - apart from themselves - many Indigenous people, fully qualified, are having trouble finding employment. Of course, it's not their concern, since they've found positions, if not actual work, so why should they care ?

But clearly somebody should. Otherwise it's a stain on our conscience.

Still, live in hope: from little things, big things grow. I don't mean the fart-around symbolic issues which mean nothing to most Indigenous people, but which may boost careers of some 'leaders' still further, but real, substantial issues that cry out for resolution.

Cheers,

Joe

Speaking of suitable employment for our indigenous people, from my untrained eye, they are quite competent with many of the trade disciplines. Though completely unskilled, many of the 'structures' I've seen them erect, are pretty good though crudely executed.

We had this young black fella, sentenced to 14 days cellular confinement, by the visiting magistrate and within 36 hours he was beside himself with both boredom and depression, even though he wasn't locked up, only at night?

Faced with the dilemma of what to do with this young bloke, transfer him to Broken Hill gaol, or what? Anyway to his absolute delight, we chose to put him to work under the direction of the (acting) police matron, and he was as happy as a lark, doing all these little odd jobs 'round the Station, the official residence, and yards. Officially, he should not have been asked to work, he was detained for 14 days nothing more. Ostensibly to give him a chance to completely 'dry out' and to curb his volatility when inebriated.

In his case, if he could land a job as an apprentice in any of the manual trades, he'd probably do very well indeed - NOT a University education, it wouldn't suit him, nor his way of life. He'd much prefer to see the results and benefits arising from all his hard work, which would go a long way of inculcating a true sense of purpose and satisfaction. And more importantly, establishing that all important 'RESPECT' ! And that's a commodity money can't buy for our Aussie blacks!

O sung wu, this is what I thought many of the outback communities in particular were about, the establishment of locations where traditional people inscribed with traditional ways adjusted to the basics of western living as a sort of archway. Places where people could enjoy being aboriginal yet begin to acquire cultural and basic vocational skills that would enable them to move more easily in and out of white society rather than remain a prey to it.

I loathed Tony Abbott consequently for that myopic and ignorant, horribly harsh, gross comment about aborigines and "lifestyle" and the sense that this sort of person feels that fellow humans are just obstacles to be bulldozed aside, for white folk, sole receptacles of virtue and entitlement in a hard world.

'afternoon to you PAUL...

I couldn't agree with you more. To re-locate many of these people to cities, in order they may attend some academic facility, unless it's to pursue an occupation, or career that they themselves would really wish to pursue, is of little value to them, either individually or collectively.

To embrace any practical and experiential course of training that prepares them for suitable employment in a trade or discipline, where they themselves are most comfortable, and where possible, among their own friends and relatives, is positively ideal and will probably create a climate calculated for success!

Apropos Tony ABBOTT, I couldn't disagree with you more PAUL! As PM he spent a week a year visiting a remote tribe and getting to know of their fears, feelings and concerns. Whether this strategy worked or it was merely a 'stunt', I wouldn't know? But I'd respectfully suggest, neither would anyone else?

'I loathed Tony Abbott consequently for that myopic and ignorant, horribly harsh, gross comment about aborigines and "lifestyle" and the sense that this sort of person feels that fellow humans are just obstacles to be bulldozed aside, for white folk, sole receptacles of virtue and entitlement in a hard world.'

Paul

can u name another pollie who used their own leave to work in Indigeneous communities. I loathed pollies like Rudd who would grandstand by making 'apologies' to the applause of those in the aboriginal industry with the net affect of helping those in communities being zero.

Hi O Sung Wu,

Around three-quarters of the Indigenous population live in urban areas. Perhaps another 15 % live in rural towns, and the other 10 % in remote areas. There's quite a bit of movement from one to the other.

Of course, since most universities are in urban areas, the people living there are more able to access university education. In major rural towns, many TAFE or VET courses are available, including apprenticeships and trade-training. In remote areas, there's usually 200 % of bugger-all. With difficulty, people are able to move from remote areas to rural towns and to urban areas and take up the opportunities there. They have been doing that for nearly forty years now.

The general community, and certainly the Indigenous community, need people with all manner of skills. Instead of bemoaning the lack of resources available in rural and remote areas, 'leaders' and staff at TAFE colleges and universities could, and should, be trying to devise pathways for Indigenous people, no matter where they are, to access TAFE colleges and/or university.

Christ, we were trying to do that thirty five years ago - what the hell has happened to Indigenous support programs ? Hasn't anybody in student support got any initiative at all these days ? Is it all just a job now ? 9 to 5, and bugger off ? The odd BS conference ?

Joe

I can't understand the comments about qualified aboriginal people not being able to get jobs in their chosen field.
In the north there is a desperate shortage of nurses, social workers, doctors, dentists, teachers etc. Race doesn't come into the issue. Everyone who applies is given serious consideration and all things being equal, aboriginal people have as much chance of being employed as everyone else.
The example of Aboriginal Health Worker is misleading. This is not a general accredited course. It is not open to non indigenous people and entry has no minimum required except basic literacy and numeracy. The course content is well below the standard needed for a registerd nurse, or even an Enrolled nurse, which is why employment prospects are limited to indigenous health organisations, and even then not in a management role.
Part of the problem here is that aboriginal people with any sort of qualifications have a very limited range of jobs they will apply for. No unskilled work, no dirty work, no outside work, in fact they want nothing but administration jobs,preferably with vehicle supplied.
The area of greatest employment chances here, apart from professional jobs, is in hospitality, for about 7 months a year. However, no indigenous people seem to want to work in this area and local businesses have to rely on backpackers.
Another area desperate for staff is in disability support. Speaking to an agency yesterday they tell me they cannot find any locals willing to be employed in this field and heavily rely on overseas visitors on working visas. Considering that the majority of young people with disabilities here are indigenous this is tragic.
The greatest challange is to get indigenous people to lower their expectations of what jobs they can get and keep, with the qualifications they have.

Hi there Joe (LOUDMOUTH)...

Mate, I really don't know what we should do, other than it MUST be a collaborative effort between our indigenous folk and us, through the government. Better minds than I, have grappled with this issue, so I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to claim I have the magic bullet?

Joe, the only thing I do know, whatever they decide to do, they must ensure the black fella, maintains his self-respect and is afforded the respect (by us) for who he is, and from where he's come from. I've heard from many respected anthropologists, our native aboriginals have been here (in Oz) for nearly thirty thousand years! They've been custodians of this great continent for all this time, and haven't put a foot wrong! For that, they deserve our total respect.

Finally Joe, before I started as a relieving police sergeant in the bush, I pictured the black fella as you'd see them, years ago at Redfern and nearby! After nearly 12 months of relieving, I was really taught a very BIG lesson, and realised how bloody ignorant I'd been! I knew absolutely nothing regarding the odious circumstances confronting many of our indigenous Australians, especially those in the bush.

Due to years of over compensation a large percentage of indigenous with varying degrees of European blood, have become 'kept', totally reliant on handouts with a sense of entitlement. Time to cut the apron strings and enforce some sense of personal responsibility. Besides saving tax payers billions of unnecessary expenditure, the focus can then be turned solely onto those in remote areas, who no longer live off the land and genuinely require health care and education. In turn giving their children a better chance of a safe healthy future.

There are half a dozen major articles in today's Australian dealing with crucial Indigenous issues, by Noel Pearson, Nicolas Rothwell, Jeremy Sammut, Brendan O'Neill and others, as well as an editorial - there's a morning's read.

IF there are two Indigenous populations - one living on lifelong welfare, the other getting some education and lifelong employment - then it's striking that most of those articles deal with only one of those populations.

As for the QUT case, when I worked in Indigenous student support, there was never any trouble since non-Indigenous students were usually accompanied by Indigenous friends and were welcomed by everybody. The Indigenous space was primarily social and for mutual support. In those days, we had only a couple of old Amstrad computers, so most Indigenous students used the common computer rooms.

I wouldn't have thought that there would be any need for separate computer rooms these days - a social space, yes - since Indigenous students are far more likely to be enrolled in mainstream courses, and in any case are in far bigger numbers: Newcastle and Charles Sturt now have close to a thousand students each, so I should imagine that computer labs would always have Indigenous students working in them. In fact, my bet is that the computer labs at QUT especially set aside for Indigenous students were, to put it delicately, under-used, but of course with a full-time staff member.

Joe
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