Dear Joe,

Of course I agree with you concerning the treatment of
women and women's rights today.

The article from
Wikipedia dealt with the historical aspect -
world wide Today. - Child marriages exist mainly in
the developing countries - which have cultural,
political, and financial reasons. In the US - once
again - the same applies. I hesitate about condemning
other cultures for their behaviour though and judging
others by our standards. I prefer explanations to
condemnations. We need to look critically at
motivation, circumstances, context, or any other
such considerations.

It's only natural that most people see things (when they mention
religion, or life-styles), with their own in mind
as being the most civilized and best.

Loudmouth, of course I would defend Muslim women's rights to equality, as I would every other woman. I can't do much about what happens in other countries, and I may not like some of the cultural or religious practices that affect Muslim women, but I have to respect the fact that some of those women state they are happy wearing Burquas etc.

I grew up being educated by nuns covered head to toe in black and white robes with not one hair showing, so I guess the Christian religion can't say much! I do hate seeing Muslim women get around in Australia with their full face veil though. I think that may change one day, and I hope it does.

For Muslim women living in Australia, as long as they are legally safe, happy and free to practice their lives and religion as they see fit, then I can't say much. As for the Muslim men, I would say the majority are the same as all men around the world...they like to run the show :)

Dearest Foxy,

I have to disagree with you:

"I hesitate about condemning other cultures for their behaviour ...."

I don't have the slightest trouble, although 'condemn' may be a little harsh - 'criticise' or 'deconstruct' perhaps. But certainly have a go at them, if they purport to operate in the modern world and yet implement backward practices which discriminate and harm women.

Nor do I have much trouble,

" .... judging others by our standards."

- with the proviso that I feel quite free to criticise 'our standards' when they seem to fall short.

But I do object to your statement:

"I prefer explanations to condemnations. We need to look critically at motivation, circumstances, context, or any other such considerations."

Sorry, that really does sound like you are making excuses for abominable practices - apart, again, from your choice of words: 'criticism' rather than 'condemnation' ? Or are you suggesting that to criticise in any way is to condemn out of hand ?

And this is certainly no excuse for anybody:

"It's only natural that most people see things (when they mention religion, or life-styles), with their own in mind as being the most civilized and best."

Yes, we should be able to criticise all practices freely, including our own: nobody and no practice should be above criticism, nor exempt from offence. Freedom of expression is nothing without the freedom to offend, and, if anything, such freedom in a civilized society may imply an obligation to offend precisely those who implement vile practices such as DV or FGM or child marriages or honor killings, etc., etc.

Love,

Joe

Dear Suse,

Excellent post!

Dear Joe,

Suse has explained my position on this topic as well.
I too was raised by the Sisters of Mercy. And I also
feel that as long as Muslim women are safe, happy - they
should be free to wear what they want and practice
their religion - within our laws.

Child marriages in this country are illegal - I don't think
we have much to concern ourselves about on that score.
What goes on elsewhere - we have no control over.
We do have a Minister of Foreign Affairs. Public pressure
can be applied.

Loudmouth,

Agreed, I don't have the slightest hesitation in judging others by our standards either, appeals to cultural relativism or attempts to play the race card are simply evasions. Our ancestors in the West lived under similar brutal theocratic regimes as to those that prevail in most majority Muslim countries these days, how many people are nostalgic for the oppressions of the 'old days'?

Our challenge to the theocrats and their Islamic apologists is clear and simple, give everyone in your societies a free choice as to how they want to live their lives.