When it comes to moral questions then we should listen to everyone Paul.
There are no experts in morality, so Andrew's view point is just a valid as Ralph's.

Although he doesn't mention himself - the CEO of another meddling NGO (in the lives and deaths of others) in the list of who I would eat dinner with - Paul Russell would NOT sit at my table.

I don't know what makes a "highly trained palliative care specialist", but that person would obviously have a vested interest in keeping alive people who would rather be dead.

Andrew Denton is not just a 'comedian'; he is a human being with opinions. He does NOT "assault (my) sensibilities" . Paul Rusell and his ilk DO assault my sensibilities. They also assault the rights of others to hold an opinion. And, Russells jibe at Nitchke's (maybe) try at comedy is a very, very cheap and nasty shot.

As for palliative care. Rubbish! What about the Alzheimer's sufferer who doesn't wish to spend the last period of life as a vegetable in a nursing home, wearing nappies, unable to do anything for his or herself, waiting to die while medical 'expert' charges to walk up to the bed occasionally. And the outrageous charges on the family by the nursing home, which the 'experts' could have shares in.

Paul Russell invites us to: " Call me self-interested", and so Paul Russell, I am calling you self interested. You are interested in your position/standing. You are intersted in "HOPE", without which you would lose both. And you are interested in how your family will go out - nothing about YOU or how your family thinks. You are 'full of it', man.

Hooray! At last a good article on assisted suicide. Cobber,not everyone shares your blind relativism.

Sell's mine is simple i think people have a right to decide for themselves.

You clearly believe that you have the right to decide for us based on your beliefs.

Hi ttbn,

I always wait for someone, in these interminable (excuse the pun) discussions about euthanasia, to get onto advanced Alzheimer's and sure enough, you oblige. Thank you. So you think that people without the mental ability to decide should have their death decided for them ? Out of concern for their human dignity, of course ?

And then there is the 'unrelievable pain' argument. From what I'm told by doctors, there is very little evidence that such actually occurs. Of course, pain may be present but after all, but it's all relative: if one's pain can be reduced from a perceived nine or ten out of ten, down to three or four out of ten, or even less, then one may feel that the lower level is quite bearable, and welcome. So I'm not really sure I believe such claims.

I've seen only a few people die, but all of them went peacefully, thanks to medication and to the wonderful palliative care staff. As an atheist, I believe that this life is our one and only, so we should drain it to the last drops as much as possible, even if I get Alzheimer's. If some jealous husband doesn't get me first when I'm ninety - at least, that's my fantasy.

Joe

Laughter is often the best medicine. As is having a reason to live! Happy people content with their lot and a healthy sex life, rarely give in to despair, and in many well reported cases beat the professional verdict!

A friend visiting just this morning told me of a young man recovering from a stroke, gave in and quit hoping? Well it is a long process, and hung himself!I just can't imagine he had nothing whatsoever to live for, but then I'm not him nor do I have his friends or "lover".

Everyone has a limit on what they able to tolerate before going mad. I have tinnitus, which for me is a screaming kettle going off 24/7 in my head. Possibly something to do with the brain tumor they seem to have discovered in my head. I have strategies that help such as always leaving a radio on or playing music, sometimes just a little too loud?

Many succumb to the endless noise and just find a way to end it all?

Everything I eat tastes like crap, my libido is missing in action. In fact almost anything that used to give me even a tiny bit of pleasure, except music and a few favorite movies, is yesterday's news; along with the fickle female who promised paradise and delivered a gulag.

So I can understand why people stop hoping for a positive outcome, and just hand over to the nearest self confessed palliative care expert, who knows just how to painlessly usher them into the hereafter!

Who we need to listen to is ourselves and what we want from medicine? So be sure to make a living will so you get what YOU want, knowing if you have a change of heart, even at the 11th hour, your wishes are paramount!
Rhrosty.

everyone knows that former Pres. Reagan had Alzheimer's, but I don't know anyone who seriously suggested that Mr Reagan would have been better off dead, or to be a bit more twee and euphemistic, have become 'less of a burden to himself and his loved ones.'

Ttbn "I don't know what makes a "highly trained palliative care specialist", but that person would obviously have a vested interest in keeping alive people who would rather be dead. "

Do you know what a palliative care specialist actually specializes in ttbn? They care for people who have been referred to them for end of life care. They are already dying-imminently. So why or how would you expect them to keep these people alive?
They have a never ending supply of patients in any case.

Loudmouth, I have seen many, many awful deaths unfortunately. If only pain was the only issue with all palliative patients, we could at least relieve them of some of that pain.
However, unrelieved vomiting, nausea and bowel incontinence is often even more distressing in many patients with stomach, bowel, pancreatic and liver cancers, to name a few.

I have seen many (yes many) patients die with awful unrelieved pain where they needed anesthetic drugs to totally knock them out so the pain would stop.
That isn't living at all. Bring on a referendum re euthanasia.

I would suggest that all those who want to soldier on, despite what any number of awful life-limiting illnesses throw at them, request that they are left to 'live' on until the illness takes them 'naturally'.
But leave the rest of us to decide if we don't want to wait that long....

Cobber the hound, actually there are experts on morality, they are called conservative christians. You just want to murder voters who wont support communism & left wing poverty creation.

"YOU clearly believe that YOU have the right to kill us based on YOUR beliefs"

Rhosty, you just described the communist feminist matriarchy perfectly. Women should be seen & not heard.

Suseonline, shades of the "useless eaters policy" there dear. What about all the feminists like you who want to keep severely disabled children alive despite lives of pain & misery. What do you propose doing with any of the savings from killing people? Creating more DV & poverty for children?

Hi Suse,

I apologise, I'll take your expertise on-board. But, as you say, if there are 'anesthetic drugs to totally knock them out so the pain would stop', and while that would probably put people into a coma, or close to it, whatever might ease somebody's suffering, as they move towards their final days and moments, is worth trying. In a way, I suppose, it's a milder form of euthanasia, without the abruptness of induced death, OR the misery and stress of prolonged death ?

A few days before my wife passed away from liver cancer, doctors told her that she had only two weeks to live. She took it quite literally, I think, but in those next few days she couldn't get any sleep, everything was shutting down, so she asked for something to give her a good night's sleep, and I think she assumed she still had more than a week to go. Either way, she was quite contented and over the next 24 hours, slipped away very peacefully. The death of a loved one is always bound to be stressful for the survivors, but at least everyone had a chance to sit with her and say goodbye.

But I'll take your point that not all passings are as easy. Thanks,

Joe

.

Though modern democracies recognize life as a fundamental human right, the same is not true of death.

But life and death are two sides of the same coin. It is impossible for one to exist without the other. Life and death is a continuum. If life is a fundamental human right, then death is too. It is the process that is a fundamental human right, not just one part of the process.

I am in favour of the death sentence for particularly atrocious crimes such as premeditated, cold-blooded murder, child murder, torture murder, terrorism, serial killing, rape murder and mass murder, but I consider that individuals convicted of such crimes, by demonstrating their utter disdain for the fundamental human right to life and death, should be euthanized in a warm, cosy environment, calmly, peacefully and in the best possible conditions of comfort and security that modern science can allow, without any pain or suffering and in the company of whomever they choose.

The same facilities should be made available to those of us who wish to end our lives as a matter of personal choice, irrespective of whether we are suffering from a terminal illness or not.

Naturally, there must be effective safeguards to protect the vulnerable from the malevolent influence of ill-intentioned persons in their entourage. Just as there should be psychological, medical and social assistance for those who are in need of them.

It is more than likely that many may change their minds on receiving competent, on-going assistance from somebody who cares. Though this is a necessary prerequisite, it should not be a barrier to any decision on voluntary euthanasia.

The ill and suffering must, of course, continue to have full, unrestricted access to the best available professional palliative care at all times, irrespective of whether they are candidates for euthanasia or not.

According to the World Health Organisation, one million individuals commit suicide worldwide each year – one death every 40 seconds. Many more attempt suicide (around 10- 20 million) each year. In Australia, six suicides per day – many by barbaric methods.

.

Speaking of laughter, Norman Cousins healed himself from a dreadfully painful disabling disease using laughter as a therapeutic tool. He describes his journey in his book Anatomy of an Illness.

And speaking of Andrew Denton and his new project to bring some necessary public light re the horrors of horrible pain-wracked deaths he was the subject of an excellent feature article in the Age a couple of weeks ago. Hooray for Andrew say I.

And furthermore not everyone can afford the financial costs of palliative care too.

And at the other end of the spectrum some self-righteous Christians are opposed to voluntary dying because they pretend that through their unmitigated pain the dying person may get to meet "jesus" - so let them suffer!

Paul

I wish you could "walk a mile in my shoes" (and many others) and those of my father, mother and recently brother from cancer.

You just have no idea, of the pain and suffering of those loved ones - which we still relive today.

Am still unable to tell the "trauma" on my parents and brother - who neither deserved to endure such immense pain - and for what?

We as siblings could do nothing ....but be there and hold their hand....and watch this enduring pain and trauma continually being experienced by our loved one.

And why - Oh - it's because it's the "law".

Sorry - it would be more legal to put a sick animal down with less pain and trauma than my mum, dad and brother had to go thru for weeks!! And we call this "good quality" paliative care whereby the pain is "supposedly" lessened ......well my mum, dad and brother must have been abnormal - as they were well aware of the pain and suffering they were going through.....and we as siblings could do nothing to assist them.

An experience our family will never forget nor forgive.

Loudmouth - you say

"And then there is the 'unrelievable pain' argument. From what I'm told by doctors, there is very little evidence that such actually occurs. Of course, pain may be present but after all, but it's all relative: if one's pain can be reduced from a perceived nine or ten out of ten, down to three or four out of ten, or even less, then one may feel that the lower level is quite bearable, and welcome. So I'm not really sure I believe such claims.

I've seen only a few people die, but all of them went peacefully, thanks to medication and to the wonderful palliative care staff. "

You can talk to me any time and I can certainly refute your "ideals" with "reality".

Hi SAINTS,

As it happens, the incidence of unrelievable pain was made clear to me yesterday at a funeral: a friend remarked that his daughter had been in a serious car accident, fracturing her neck bones (I think I got this right) and leaving her in constant agony; a highly-paid surgeon botched the treatment and she is now in worse pain than ever, so she is desperately trying another surgeon.

So yes, it occurs, and probably much more than I would be aware of in my sheltered life. So yes, IF such pain was unrelievable, I can understand someone wanting to end it all, to 'make it stop'. But it most certainly should be their decision, absolutely nobody else's.

Best wishes,

Joe

Loudmouth
“ So yes, IF such pain was unrelievable, I can understand someone wanting to end it all, to 'make it stop'. But it most certainly should be their decision, absolutely nobody else's.”

Andrew Denton is a supporter of “the patient’s” right “to die peacefully and with dignity”, and agree with you.

He is not a supporter of just giving an older person a needle to end their life for assets etc. as some may suggest.

Rachel Friend wrote an article in Sunday’s Telegraph 15/11 – They didn’t let mum die with dignity. Page 37. An excellent article.

All we want is for our loved ones to die with dignity – the same as they led their life.