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The Forum > Article Comments > Hiroshima: the beginning and the end of nuclear history > Comments

Hiroshima: the beginning and the end of nuclear history : Comments

By Jed Lea-Henry, published 10/8/2015

The Japanese leadership were unmoved. It was the shadow of Stalinism that made the difference.

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Leslie, they are reasonable questions to ask. They have in fact for the most part been answered, thanks primarily to the release in recent years of previously classified documents. Like so much we were taught about WW2 growing up in the 1950s and 1960s, the then official reasons bear little relation to reality. We now know for example that Japan was willing to surrender in 1944 and through its embassy in Moscow wanted to negotiate. The only condition they imposed was retention of the emperor, which of course the Americans allowed.

Neither bomb was necessary to end the war. Their purpose had much more to do with demonstrating to Stalin that they had such weapons. The two bombs were in fact very different and the Americans wanted a demonstration of their effect on real populations. They were prepared to sacrifice tens of thousands of civilians for that purpose.

These two bomb attacks were among the greatest of crimes perpetrated, and only the morally and ethically bankrupt rejoice in their use.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 10 August 2015 5:34:12 PM
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Dear Leslie and James

Yours and Putin's database - courtesy of Pravda "Truth"

http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/16-02-2015/129837-revising_history-0/

Aye chappies :-)
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 10 August 2015 5:50:05 PM
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Plantagenet. Your cheap shots have no place in a serious forum. My information is drawn from formerly top secret "Magic" summaries of intercepted Japanese communications and translations from the Japanese of accounts of high level meetings and discussions in Tokyo leading to the Emperor’s decision to surrender.
:“Magic’ – Far East Summary, War Department, Office of Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2, no. 508, August 10, 1945
Source: RG 457, Summaries of Intercepted Japanese Messages (“Magic” Far East Summary, March 20, 1942 – October 2, 1945), box 7, SRS 491-547
Documents 77A-B: The First Japanese Offer Intercepted
. “Magic” – Diplomatic Summary, War Department, Office of Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2, No. 1233 – August 10, 1945, Top Secret Ultra
Translation of intercepted Japanese messages, circa 10 August 10, 1945, Top Secret Ultra
Source: Record Group 457, Records of the National Security Agency/Central Security Service, “Magic” Diplomatic Summaries 1942-1945, box 18
The first Japanese surrender offer was intercepted shortly before Tokyo broadcast it. This issue of the diplomatic summary also includes Togo’s account of his notification of the Soviet declaration of war, reports of Soviet military operations in the Far East, and intercepts of French diplomatic traffic. A full translation of the surrender offer was circulated separately. The translations differ but they convey the sticking point that prevented U.S. acceptance: Tokyo’s condition that the allies not make any “demand which prejudices the prerogatives of His Majesty as a sovereign ruler.”
Posted by Leslie, Monday, 10 August 2015 6:32:46 PM
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Giday Leslie

Denialists always have terrific documentation. One can deny the Holocaust quite documentarally.

It depends on what information, sorry "evidence", you want to believe.

Do you have ALL the MILLIONS of Top Secret decrypts from all sides?

Was Wilfred Burchett a fine fellow?

Have you fully taken on board the Japanese Warlords (War Faction) training of Japanese schoolgirls to use sharpened bamboo sticks against the invaders down to the last Japanese?

Mass starvation in Japan during 1945?

We will never surrender?
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 10 August 2015 6:47:12 PM
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Leslie, you are wasting your time debating with Plantagenet. There was a time when he made an effort to contribute to the debate, but as you observe, all that is left are the cheap shots. If you disagree with his particularly idiosyncratic world view you are a "leftist" a "conspiracy theorist" a Putin acolyte or some other poor substitute for rational thought.

As you know there are a number of reputable historians that have ploughed though the "millions" of documents that he refers to. The evidence is now largely understood, and it does not accord with his logic and fact free version. Keep making your views known. I at least benefit from them.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 10 August 2015 9:57:08 PM
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President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill met at Quebeck in August 1943 and agreed that an atom bomb(s), when developed, would not be used without the full consent of Great Britain. They met again in September 1944 and agreed that the bomb(s) would be dropped on Japan.
Earl Mountbatten, commander-in-chief of the British Army for the Far East, kept a diary. It was made into a book and published. He said that he had a business to fly back to London several days before the Potsdam Conference began. He made a stopover in Cairo, where he received an instruction from Churchill to come to Potsdam. In Potsdam he was told that an atomic bomb(s) would be dropped on Japan and that the war would be over in August. I had a photocopy of the page but it is missing; otherwise I could have quoted the passage verbatim.
Joe O'Donnell was a photographer attached to President Truman. He was on Wake Island when the President met General MacArthur in October 1950. Coming out of the hall where he talked with the General, he suggested to O'Donnell that they would walk together. Walkig some distance, the President took a piss, and then O'Donnell asked, "I just wondered do you have any regret for the bomb being dropped. (And) he had (a) very red face and said it was not my decision. It was Roosevelt who said just drop the bomb, not me, so don't blame me." Mr. O'Donnell's interview with NHK or Japan Broadcasting Association was on air on January 14, 2008.
Posted by Michi, Monday, 10 August 2015 11:49:31 PM
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