The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > What is it about coal-seam gas? > Comments

What is it about coal-seam gas? : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 13/4/2015

I wish Mr Baird and his Government every success in persuading the citizens of NSW that there really is a problem with the supply of gas to NSW people, that it won't go away, and that exploiting CSG can be done, responsibly.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. All
Relax Armchair, it doesn't matter whether global warming is true or not.
We have a much more urgent worry, ERoEI of oil & coal is and has fallen very significantly.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 16 April 2015 6:20:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hey Bazz,
I was just being sarcastic with my point being don't mess with the water.
We drink it, the animals we eat drink it, and we grow crops for consumption with it.
Its really to our own detriment to mess with it.
But if they can find a way to extract the gas safely without harm to the groundwater or the people living in close proximity then I have no issue with it.

I'm interested in your comment regarding ERoEI on oil and coal though.
I can understand that underground coal mines are a lot more expensive than open cut coal mines, as the deeper you go the more it costs in fuel to get it out, and you eventually run out of all the easily mineable open cut accessible deposits - which also become more expensive the deeper you go.
So I can understand the energy spent to get the coal concern, but not the oil, unless you were pointing out Aussie producers are no longer cost effective at current oil prices.
I know it costs a million to drill a hole to look for oil whether you find it or not, but surely the Saudi's can still pull sweet crude out of the ground for $10 a barrel, and as long as they can sell it for more than it costs surely that's not an issue (of us running out in a hurry).
As for Aussie oil producers the current oil price probably makes their operations unfeasible and is both hurting their operations and our economy as well. It is a problem, but what can we do?
Its kind of like manufacturing in Oz as opposed to China and other SE Asian countries, - what can we do?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 16 April 2015 7:47:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Water of course is a real priority, but taking it back from the
farmers did not seem a very clever thing to do, rain hail or shine.

The ERoEI of coal in 1930 was I read 80 and it is now somewhere around 30.
The ERoEI of oil in 1930 was 100, it is now 10.
Australia may be in a better place with coal than other countries but
those figures were world ERoEIs.

Related to that is an article by Gail Tveberg;

http://tinyurl.com/k74cxbo

It is all the same process that brought about the Fall of the Roman Empire !
ie diminishing returns which of course is what a falling eroei is all about.
In our case, we have about 40%, and declining, of our usage of oil
and as open cut mines are very diesel thirsty having to cart all
that oil up to Singapore and pay them to refine it then employ between
300 & 400 oil tankers to bring it back to Sydney really fouls up our diminishing returns.
I haven't yet worked out how many tankers are needed to keep Australia's tanks full.
It is a bit of a shocker isn't it ?

The Saudis would love to be able to still get it out for $10 but alas
they are like us up against rising costs. Last figure I saw was
around $35 but it is a state secret so you may be decapitated for reading that.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 16 April 2015 11:13:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy