DSdeM's position is impregnable, at least in his own mind, claiming that faith itself is a gift from god!

Living and letting live is what matters, if believers would only leave it at that.

If you're saying my faith seems very firm, I'll take that as a compliment.

If you were wanting to say anything else, you'll have to elaborate, as I didn't catch it.

(:-))
Yuyutsu believs in the non-existence of God, although Christianas believe in His existence, and Pericles believes in the “non-exact nature of pi” although mathematicians believe in its “exact nature” (as an irrational number) …
(:-)).

Sorry Pericles, I know you meant the non-existence of a finite decimal expansion, but I could not resist the temptation to compare. Since, if one wants to, one can see what you mean, and also what Yuyutsu or Dan mean even when they disagree on the meaning of the verb "exist".

To avoid misunderstandings, I certainly do not think that scientific theories - including those falling into the category "biological evolution"- are merely "cultural values" that have been "imbued into the society".

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Dear George,

.

On « relative freedom of thought and independence of mind » :
.

I have no means of measuring such things. I place the accent on the qualifier: “relative”.

Moreover, many eminent philosophers seem to think that “freedom of the individual” is extremely limited if it exists at all.

By “freedom”, I mean “autonomy”. I see it as something we acquire progressively during our lifetime until it peaks-out and declines, describing a sort of Gaussian curve. In the scenario I imagine, our degree of autonomy varies at different points of time along the curve. The point at which it peaks-out is different from one person to another and the size and shape of the “bell” is also different from one person to another.

Please be assured, George, that I consider that you, like me and everybody else on this earth, dispose of some degree of « relative freedom of thought and independence of mind » which, as I said, I am perfectly incapable of measuring. Perhaps you can come-up with some sort of algorithm.

If you are willing to give it a try, I should be happy to do whatever I could to help identify the determining factors that enter into the equation.

The only thing of which I am certain is that none of us has a constant value of autonomy, freedom, independence or responsibility. It is a variable.

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On « reconciling different worldviews » :
.

You wrote : « … these discussions are about enhancing one’s worldview by learning from some honest upholders of the opposite one …».

Agreed, and I think we can combine the interests of all parties through “reconciliation” as defined by the OED :

« 1. – The restoration of friendly relations
2. – The action of making one view or belief compatible with
another »

As Quentin Crisp wrote in his novel “How to Become a Virgin” :

« The very purpose of existence is to reconcile the glowing opinion we have of ourselves with the appalling things that other people think about us ».

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George,
If I too may clarify, I said that our society takes the opportunity to 'indoctrinate' our youth in what it considers appropriate current beliefs and values. In the case of evolutionary beliefs, most of our kids from a young age are receiving this inculcation through blanket repetition and continual reinforcement before their minds have developed the more critical faculties.

My point was that it is happening, whether good or bad. Whether theories of biological evolution are something more than 'merely' cultural values is a different question.

Pericles,
You were willing to use Peter Selleck's words in your post taking aim at me: "the irrationality, immaturity and superstition of believers".

I can see from this that you're not really concerned about getting onto my Christmas card list. But if I can ask your opinion, are you quoting Peter as a witness for believers or for the non-believer? In other words, whose side do you think he's on?

Dan,

>> our society takes the opportunity to 'indoctrinate' our youth in what it considers appropriate current beliefs and values.<<

Every society does that - if by ‘indoctrinate’ you mean teaching children beliefs and values without offering them a critical assessment or the alternatives - but you are right that Christendom that defined its basic beliefs and values is over. We in the West have a (more or less) purely secular society whose beliefs and value overlap, but are not nearly identical with, those of the Christendom.

Happy Easter with (or without) its Christian significance to you and all those who still read this thread.