Correct Craig Minns,...thinkabit..try readingabit.

To the Author you clearly don't understand Sam's point, or maybe you just really want to believe you have free will. Here is a test for you flap your arms and fly like a bird...I bet you can't. The fact you can't has nothing to do with your wish is achieve it.

How about rolling a single standard die and getting a seven. What if I said to you if you new all of the variables that went into your throw you could determine exact what number you would get? Sam is extending that the whole of matter works with rules, and if that's true they all things are determined by those rules.

So if you know all the rules and know all the current states of matter then you can determine the future of the universe.

no room for free will there. But you need to understand that even though there is not actual randomness to the loto numbers it doesn't follow that I getting rich tonight.

thinkabit, my background is in science and engineering (among other things) and I'm currently back at uni to study a degree in electronic engineering. When it comes to physics, I'm no more than an amateur, although with sufficient maths, science and philosophy (which is very much a vital component of the picture) to be able to make some sense of things.

I'm afraid there's no strong consensus in fundamental physics at the moment. The 'many interacting worlds' model is my personal favourite, but I also like supersymmetry, for different reasons which are not really amenable to a brief discussion here.

In all, there are at least 6 - some argue 10 - mutually incompatible models of QM extant at present, each of which has some passionate adherents.

I'd not like to try to make a strong argument for any of them, but it seems to me to be vanishingly improbable that any solution which discounts some form of determinism is going to be successful.

If you'd like to have something to think about, try Schrodinger's cat.

What if the observer in Schrodinger's famous gedankenexperiment was also part of a system which was itself being observed and so on?

Where does the determinism stop and how would we know?

Cobber the Hound - to you and everyone else who accepts determinism and thus believe that you have no control over your minds, all I can say is good luck for living in the seriously weird world you believe you live in.

From JP - - to you and everyone else who accepts determinism and thus believe that you have no control over your minds, all I can say is good luck for living in the seriously weird world you believe you live in.

What is that supposed to mean exactly?

Whether you believe in determination or not, and for everyone else who hasn't even heard the term, its all the same. Everyone continues to live their lives, doing what they choose to do, nothing really changes.

So, good luck to you too JP.

As a test to see if you are in control of your mind or not, try to stop thinking. Go on, empty your head of all thoughts for more than 30 seconds.

Thinkabit: I have tertiary qualifications in several disciplines.

And I have read something about Quantum Mechanics, which I don't pretend to understand as well as the Authors.

However, if want want to bag someone with your vastly superior knowledge on the subject, suggest you bag them and the comprehensive studies that seem to back their claims.

And no I won't supply names and or links, given I would prefer that a man of your knowledge and experience do his own more conclusive research! Some of which seems to be missing? Too lazy perhaps?

Some of the oldest cultures on earth have (fire-walking) knowledge that we just don't posses or simply scoff at as being impossible, like health restoring acupuncture or meditation.

When you understand what the dark matter between the stars is, and the power it has to create or grant properly prepared and put wishes, by a number of minds all making the same request! (ancient Aboriginal knowledge) Then perhaps we could continue this discussion?

In the interim, neither I nor anybody posting here, is any further informed by what you don't know or choose to disbelieve! Even so, maybe you'd and everybody posting here, cares to participate in an experiment in future molding quantum mechanics.

Simply suspend your credulity, and every day at midday, EST, spend ten minutes in quiet contemplation, that states in very positive terms, that Rhrosty is not only completely well with his robust health restored but has his other two fondest wishes granted as well.

And continue the same wishful thinking on my behalf for the next thirty days!
That's not too much to ask, is it?

I promise to report any positive changes in my health status or circumstances.
Thanks one and all, Rhrosty.