CH, what on earth gives you the idea that I think ISIS is worth defending?

However, bear in mind that as far as ISIS is concerned, it is a State and in that state it is legal to carry out the death penalty by public decapitation (but beheading sounds so much more satisfyingly pornographic, doesn't it?), or by public immolation or by various other means. Presumably you, staunch defender of states' rights that you are, think this is all right and proper.

I just don't buy any of that!

We train soldiers to kill and efficiently as possible! We drop bombs that all too often fall on the innocent as the guilty, and are seeking new ways to do it remotely, from a supposedly safer distance.

Even today, we are discussing where we should have our subs built!

And these machines in some nations hands, are the most lethal weapons ever built; and capable as just a single sub, of destroying most of the so called civilized world!

We parade around waving banners that decry the death penalty, while an elderly neighbor is left to fend for themselves!

We seem to be able to find endless empathy for convicted criminals; but bugger all for an elderly and virtually helpless housebound neighbor!

Another even more helpless prisoner, who will also die soon, and what's worse, all too often, from our (couldn't give a rats) neglect!

I sense diabolical double standards on display here; and empathy reserved strictly for (look at me, look at me) heroic public consumption; and little or none when the T.V. Cameras and News Crews are missing in action; or busy chasing ambulances!

The more we back the Indonesians into a corner, with our megaphone diplomacy and double standard public protests, the more likely they are to find less and less compassion for people who knew exactly what they were doing and the risks involved!

And their rehab may be as disingenuous are they were, when trying to smuggle potentially lethal drugs across state borders! Save your sympathy for more worthwhile causes!

That said, suppose we reintroduced capital punishment? And include in the list of possible recipients, Indonesian people smugglers, given some of their customers will also die, as have many already!

A culpable death remains a culpable death, regardless of form or manner of (drugs or drowning) delivery!

How long, do you think, would it then take for the Indonesians to take the death penalty off of the table?
Rhrosty.

Hi All...

I don't agree, with much of what David has said, other than I don't support the death penalty. He outlines many of the issues that criminologists tend to espouse, the last of which is that of retribution by society. Whereas, I firmly believe that the word punishment (retribution) should come first, with the others following.

He cites individuals such as Ivan MILAT and Martin BRYANT as two criminals who'll probably not see the light of a day's freedom ? There are many others who should never be released either, far worse than MILAT, and believe it or not, BRYANT - BRYANT'S evil was magnified purely by the large number of victims, of this individual's murderous rage, rather than the sheer horror and atrociousness of the specifics of the crime itself !

Alan CRUMP and Kevin BAKER were as bad as I've ever heard or seen, as well as the MURPHY brothers, who followed closely behind. Indeed, there are a small select number of criminals in gaols around Australia, who MUST die therein, and will do so, provided all government's retain their nerve, and 'stare-down' these 'far lefty' ratbags calling for the release of these maggots on compassionate grounds ! Never ever, must some of these evil 'things' EVER see freedom !

Please understand, it's only police who get to 'see' and to 'smell', a really horrific crime scene. Even the Coroner is often spared such horrors (not by much, I'll grant you) that police have to deal with. Moreover, it's only police who to take home those images of horror, and smells so dreadful, regardless of the showering, you'll never remove 'the stink' from your 'being' ?

Not governments, the public, the criminologists, lawyers, medical doctors etc. and many others, it's the police that first, must deal with the initial scene of such abject human depravity and degeneracy.

If society wishes to determine, whether a killer is ready to be released from gaol - FIRSTLY, ask the opinion of the investigating detectives ! It is they who truly know ALL the circumstances of that crime ?

O sung wu, I agree. I don’t also support the death penalty, but I don’t think this article argues the case against very well. I also agree with VK3AUU that the surgeon analogy is a poor one.

Swanton asserts that the death penalty “doesn't conform to modern notions of how we should treat fellow humans”, but doesn’t say why “modernity” is a legitimate test of the ethics of a penalty, or even explain what “modern notions of how we should treat fellow humans” actually are. He also says that “A better alternative to many people's eye for an eye system of morality is one based on an ethical principle that it is wrong to kill other people against their will.” I happen to agree, but I’d expect an article like this to try to explain WHY that is a better system, not merely to assert it.

I oppose the death penalty because:
- The evidence does not support claims it acts as a deterrent
- It doesn’t save money – people sentenced to death will typically exhaust every legal option they can to avoid execution, and legal processes are very expensive
- The legal system often makes mistakes, especially in the high-profile and emotive cases most likely to attract the death penalty. Many people convicted of IRA bombings in the UK, for example, were later shown to be innocent.
- It is rarely applied impartially. Black men are disproportionately likely to be executed in the USA. Almost none of the people executed in Indonesia in recent years were Indonesian.
- It allows no possibility of rehabilitation or restitution.
- It can seriously affect the metal health of prison staff and others who participate in the gruesome practicalities of killing another human being.
- Life imprisonment is not a soft option.
- There is no humane way to execute someone, and anticipation of execution causes acute suffering for prisoners and their families.
- I believe that taking human life diminishes and degrades the society that practices it.

Another take on the list of reasons to oppose the death penalty from someone who supports it:

- The evidence does not support claims it acts as a deterrent
* death criminals cannot reoffend
- It doesn’t save money – people sentenced to death will typically exhaust every legal option they can to avoid execution, and legal processes are very expensive
* the legal process can be streamlined. Also at nearly $100,000/yr to incarcerate, 25, 30, 45 years will clock up a much bigger expense in the long run
- The legal system often makes mistakes, especially in the high-profile and emotive cases most likely to attract the death penalty. Many people convicted of IRA bombings in the UK, for example, were later shown to be innocent.
* only apply the death sentence to the most horrendous crimes and for killing a Police Office and only when there is absolutely no uncertainty.
- It is rarely applied impartially. Black men are disproportionately likely to be executed in the USA. Almost none of the people executed in Indonesia in recent years were Indonesian.
* as above; the undeniable evidence is agreed by all (expect perhaps the accused)
- It allows no possibility of rehabilitation or restitution.
* Horrendous evil stalker rapists and tortuous murderers, serial paedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. They cannot be trusted ever again.
- It can seriously affect the metal health of prison staff and others who participate in the gruesome practicalities of killing another human being.
* I doubt this; if the act is carried out by a person who can detach himself from personalising the act, professionally detached so to speak, like a Samurai, without hate for the victim, such concern is not an issue. It does require employing the right person for the job and after much psychological assessment.
- Life imprisonment is not a soft option.
* Lifelong imprisonment is more inhumane. Inmates should at least have the option of an on-demand cyanide pill via a straw in the wall

continued...

- There is no humane way to execute someone, and anticipation of execution causes acute suffering for prisoners and their families.
*Did the perpetrator facing a death sentence treat his victim humanely? Evil serial killers, cowardly killers of the elderly, the frail, the defenceless, children, etc don't deserve sympathy. Speeding up the process like the Chinese do can eliminate this concern.
- I believe that taking human life diminishes and degrades the society that practices it.
*That's your belief and assessment. Many agree with you and many don't. I do not see how the death penalty degrades the society at whole; it is simply a facet of the reality in which it takes place that does not effect most of the people.
*From a karma perspective, receiving the death sentence for committing a similar crime actually allows the person to pay their dues in this life.