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The Forum > Article Comments > South Australia's 'unmentionable' problems > Comments

South Australia's 'unmentionable' problems : Comments

By Malcolm King, published 22/1/2015

The global economy is condemning old analogue states such as South Australia to a future of high unemployment, falling revenue and economic stagnation.

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The article omits the likelihood of steep gas price rises when Santos diverts Moomba gas to its LNG plant in Queensland. Some 52% of SA electricity comes from gas fired power stations and its flexibility enables backup for the 27% that comes from wind power. No large industry will replace Holden and the ASC as future power will be too expensive.

I spent the weekend in the company of some cashed up SA baby boomers and they like things just as they are. Not too much concern for the prospects of school leavers. Since SA has about a third of the world's easily mined uranium I think they should go large on the nuclear fuel cycle. That is not just mine uranium but enrich it and generate electricity to replace gas and export some power to the coal states Vic/NSW/Qld. If Adelaide people can overcome their misgivings commuting distance sites like Pt Stanvac should be considered. It would be a shot in the arm for SA which has few natural advantages left.
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 22 January 2015 10:18:33 AM
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Taswegian, I'm far from convinced of the economic case for nuclear as although gas prices will be high in the short term, I expect them to fall in less time than we could build a nuclear power station in, as more countries increase production and Japan resumes nuclear power generation. Meanwhile the cost of solar continues to fall.

But if we do go for nuclear, Port Pirie's really the best place for it. Geologically well suited, lots of local support, and very little local opposition.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 22 January 2015 11:06:23 AM
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Aidan the problem with Pt Pirie and Pt Augusta for seawater cooled thermal plant is that both sites are at the top of a gulf with poor sea currents. That's despite the remaining coal plant at Pt Augusta and Alinta's proposal for a solar thermal plant.

I don't believe solar PV with batteries can scale up to become a baseload power source able to store many gigawatt hours of electricity. I also expect federal intervention on gas exports in a couple of years because the domestic price keeps rising.
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 22 January 2015 11:41:35 AM
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No it's not the global economy, just planners stuck in the past, or think the only solutions are those that (take far more than they give) itinerant foreigners offer!

What we need is a complete turnaround in thinking, and a return to good old self reliance.

And it would help if we just learned to invest in our best people and their better ideas.

And where can't is really won't; it and those displaying their can't/won't do, need to be replaced with people with new and fresh ideas.

Doing what you've always done only ever gets you what you've always got! No ifs, buts or maybes!

What was possible in completely bankrupt, war torn and essentially destroyed Japan, is far more doable here.

All we need is some unifying concepts and all making a useful contribution; even those self made men, you know, those who hewed the log cabin they were born in, out of the wilderness; and with their own bare hands.

United we stand, divided we fall, let's stand together!
And wouldn't that make a pleasant change from all the argy bargy and ceaseless blame shifting!

It almost beggars belief, we have yet to try self terminating thirty year bonds, to create income earning infrastructure!
And given the infrastructure deficit, in spades!

And because that is so, around 1.6 trillion super funds, [ ours,] need to seek offshore solutions, rather than be put to work right here right now, when and where they're most needed!

One should ask, how much tax are they earning for us right now?
Or would 50% of something be worth more than the 100% of nothing those invested offshore, are earning for us right now?
How long are we going to keep missing that particular boat!?

Moreover, other nations super funds; and or, sovereign funds are also looking for long term safe (low tax) harbors!

Only prevented by parochial stick in the mud types, who just want to rule!

Think about that, or failing that, just think!

God bless the child that's got his own!
Rhrosty
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 22 January 2015 12:59:17 PM
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What else can one expect from a tired old labor government. Stagnation debt, corruption. Same old story.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 22 January 2015 1:17:47 PM
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Taswegian, why don't you believe that Solar PV with batteries can scale up enough?

And are you sure the sea currents at Port Pirie are poor? The gulf's a lot wider there (and IIRC also much deeper) than it is at Port Augusta.

__________________________________________________________________________

Shadow, the problem is Liberal governments tend to be even worse. Similar problems to Labor, but with increased negativity (because they're more interested in blaming Labor for problems than solving them) and a greater irrational fear of debt (resulting in assets being sold for much less than they're worth).
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 22 January 2015 1:55:40 PM
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Hi Aidan and Taswegian

On nuclear I agree that SA should become a major place for developing the nuclear fuel cycle. U mining, enrichment, export overseas and research on advanced power stations. Also a long term project maintain the reactttors of the nulear propelled submarines Australia needs tto buy by 2040.

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Hi Malcolm King

I wonder what compelling reasons keep you in SA given your regular listings of its endemic problems. Maybe those compelling reasons are quality of life benefits hidden by other measures than those that you select?

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 22 January 2015 2:20:05 PM
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Hi Pete,

I studied the state's population and structural industry problems working for the APS and I also help people gets jobs. Plus I was born in SA (but worked from my 20s to 40s in Melbourne and elsewhere). I enjoy the wines and the beaches but I run my own business which also includes researching the local economy and meeting people at the 'coal face'.

The state needs more than geography to compete. It needs a regenerated media to wake people up and an attacking focus on international investment or else the quality of life benefits will seem more like a crutch rather than asset.
Posted by Malcolm 'Paddy' King, Thursday, 22 January 2015 2:45:19 PM
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Aidan the argument against PV+batteries being a major power source is that the energy return is a small fraction of what we are used to with coal, gas and hydro. It may not be enough for a complex industrial society. See
http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/catch-22-of-energy-storage
If SA were to get sea water cooled nuclear power plants I favour combining them with desalination plants on open ocean frontages for brine dispersal. Eyre Peninsula will need a new water source by 2025 and Pt Stanvac already has a desal with vacant land adjoining.
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 22 January 2015 3:25:46 PM
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Hi Malcolm

Yes certainly SA needs all the media questioning it can get. Too many towns and more rarely cities have a bought, passive media, afraid of editors who, in turn, are afraid of local powers that be.

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 22 January 2015 4:35:43 PM
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Taswegian, as long as energy returned exceeds energy invested EROEI is not the limiting factor; economic return is. And it should become obvious that the claims otherwise are wrong when you consider true EROEI (including fuel) of fossil fuel generation: it's always below 1!

I am opposed to any use of Port Stanvac that would prevent its future use as a deepwater port. We should always consider Adelaide's future needs as well as present needs.

And the Eyre Peninsula has plenty of scope for brine disposal on land. And desalination's something that's well suited to a high reliance on solar power, as it can be done as an energy balancing activity, though the Port Stanvac plant is not currently set up for that. Indeed it's not doing much at the moment, but we're able to make much better use of our existing water supplies because it's there.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 22 January 2015 4:55:20 PM
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With solar, wind, battery backup and small onsite gas powered generators the future of electricity production will be in the home.
It is more efficient to produce electricity where it is being used
Posted by Crowie, Thursday, 22 January 2015 6:08:17 PM
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Nailed it in one Crowie!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 23 January 2015 12:00:52 PM
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It was not clear to me what Malcolm King was proposing South Australia do to overcome its "unmentionable" problems. It has the potential to be a center for defence technology: http://blog.tomw.net.au/2012/05/adelaide-hi-tech-arsenal-of-australia.html

Adelaide has an impressive concentration of higher education institutions, but having a building shared by Carnegie Mellon, University College London and Torrens University of Australia may backfire as a strategy: http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/2014/07/how-many-universities-in-torrens.html
Posted by tomw, Tuesday, 27 January 2015 10:26:55 AM
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