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The Forum > Article Comments > Disability and humanity > Comments

Disability and humanity : Comments

By Vaughan Olliffe, published 3/12/2014

Earlier this year, Richard Dawkins tweeted that it would be immoral not to abort a baby if you knew it had Down Syndrome.

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"The high rate of these abortions is in large part due to the prevalent belief that the life of a person with a disability is not as valuable as one without."

Is it?

How do you know this?

Personally, I take the biblical attitude. A baby is not a "living soul" until it takes its first breath. Up till that point, the parent have every right to flush it.

Indeed, from the bible we learn that fathers basically own their children, up to and including the right to offer them as a human sacrifice to Jehovah - Abraham, Jephthah, and of course God himself, who human-sacrificed his own son to himself.

As always, when it comes to ethics religion doesn't really have any credibility. A God who drowned his own children in a universal flood really has no business telling other people what they matt do with their own.
Posted by PaulMurrayCbr, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 11:06:29 AM
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A.J.Phillips.
I completely concur, and should I see a fetus marching down any street, intent on inserting itself into an unwilling human host, I'll crack it over the head to prevent that possibility!

All lewd levity aside, if said fetus is the product of informed consensual behavior, why should it pay with its life, because mummy forgot to take a pill, or D.H. daddy forgot to call in at the chemist/local supermarket, to pick up a packet of condoms; or that mummy was just too lazy or too stupid, to take a (available over the counter at many chemists) morning after pill!?

Actions always beget consequences, and if you can't accept the consequences/responsibilities, don't take the action, what ever it may be!
And there should be a good medical reason to abort a completely normal healthy baby/still beating human heart; rather than, as a "family planning" convenience!

In some primitive cultures, there seems to be evidence of infanticide?
That being so, should we just wait until the baby is born, to see if it's normal or "wanted" and then if considered convenient, just bash its head against a rock; always providing, we aren't asked to witness the act or be asked to dispose of the remains, which could be dumped down any convenient storm water drain!?

I mean, funerals are just so expensive; and anyway, we're talking about a still unaware life form!
And, is there any real difference between that form of infanticide/waste disposal, and our so called legal abortions; given both actions are completely insensitive and may still a beating human heart; and flush the remains!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 11:26:41 AM
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Rhrosty,

Your hypothetical scenario is invalid.

A small child needing a kidney transplant didn’t choose to come into this world either, but that doesn’t mean that the mother should be forced to donate a kidney if she can. Why does a foetus have special rights here?

The child requiring a kidney transplant is at least self-aware and potentially conscious of the consequences of not receiving a donor kidney. They are capable of feeling fear in what might happen and relief that they can live, in the event that they receive a donor.

The rights of the person/foetus requiring the body of another to survive do not trump the rights of the one who can provide the support required. It’s that simple.

My point still stands.
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 12:00:02 PM
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That A.J.Philips person speaks rubbish, whats the side issue? The question is does a Downs Syndrome baby deserve to be allowed to live? Course they are. There may be lots of problems for the parants because of the babys been slightly disformed, but medical science has made a lot of advances therefore theres plenty of help. To kill a baby because of Downs Syndrome sounds very much like my old country, or Nazi Germany or the CCCP 35 years ago. You sound like a heartless fool A.J.Philips!
Posted by misanthrope, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 12:22:31 PM
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Misanthrope,

Clearly you haven’t understood a word of what I’ve actually said.

I have not suggested that anyone kill down's syndrome babies. Of course down’s syndrome babies deserve to live. So do foetuses whether they’re disabled or not, for that matter. But no-one deserves to live at the expense of someone else’s body - with total disregard to whether or not the owner of that body wants it.

As someone who apparently expects that women be forced to carry their pregnancies to full term against their wishes, I would think that you were the heartless one. So please take your emotional outbursts and Godwin’s law elsewhere.
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 1:12:05 PM
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No Misanthrope he is not a fool, we human beings are no different to the animal world ,of course there are those who would disagree with that comment, animals discard their young if deformed, most people have that same gene if left in their natural state, but we are civilized and should not do that, society says so, most deformed people end up in institutions for others to look after, having seen many people with deformed huge heads having to be turned in bed, as they cannot do so, that person would have been better aborted, we can all say that is wrong but would we be prepared to look after that person, it is easy to say yes we would, what bunkham.
Posted by Ojnab, Wednesday, 3 December 2014 1:26:41 PM
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