The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Do the crime, do the time? Not if you're a banker in Australia > Comments

Do the crime, do the time? Not if you're a banker in Australia : Comments

By Philip Soos, published 31/10/2014

Recently, the head of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, Greg Medcraft, called Australia a 'paradise' for white-collar criminals.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
A good example of this type of crime is the Peter Foster pyramid scam he allegedly was running over the last 12 months.
He was living at Byron Bay during that time renting 2 houses through a friend.
The media had mentioned he was in the area several times and ACA found him there yet the police couldn't.
In the meantime he allegedly attracts the likes of Alan Jones to recommended his scheme and makes millions.
Posted by BOOMER, Friday, 31 October 2014 7:28:35 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
My only real criticism of the article is its undue emphasis on bankers as perpetrators of while collar crimes. I would have though that company directors and managers (only a minority) are just as guilty.

Corporate crime (including fraud, insider trading, lack of timely and complete disclosure to investors, insolvent trading etc.) is rampant in this country. ASIC seems completely impotent and has a poor record both in policing and in launching successful prosecutions.
Posted by Bren, Friday, 31 October 2014 7:48:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bren says it all for me! Got SFA to add!
Except, these people should be locked up and the key thrown away! Ordinary folk can do far more time for stealing far less! The only real difference, they're upfront with their criminal intentions!
And don't tell me it makes some kind of difference is violence or its threat is included.
The (legally disarmed) battered or wounded home owner/business owner may survive financially intact, a beating/wounding; but rarely if ever, white collar caused Bankruptcy or property/asset forfeiture!
We the people need to get back into the banking business, given the billions in profits being ripped off of, we Australians! By machine men, and can't lose, robotic business models!
That like the pokies, ensure the house always wins!
Besides, a return to affordable housing and even more affordable venture capital, [interest pegged for the full term of the loan,] would make a very pleasant change, as would the certainty it would engender!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 31 October 2014 8:25:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well the HSBC has been caught in Britain laundering $ billions in drug money but the Govt decided it might affect the economy adversely.They are too big to jail.

They give them fines that in no way hurt their profits. The interest rate fixing scandals have all been swept under the carpet.

We have allowed the banking system to create from nothing all the money as debt, for our Govts and economies to function. World debt is now 5 times the GDP of the planet and growing exponentially. It can never be repaid.

The banking system owns us and our Govts.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 31 October 2014 8:56:53 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I have absolutely no problem with the parts of this article that are factual (i.e. except the bits that are pure speculation), but the breathless indignation tends to obscure the issues, rather than highlight them.

In my view, the legislation in this area is somewhere between ten and twenty years out of date, creating a fundamental difficulty when assessing the likelihood of success in court. Lawyers tend to be the only beneficiaries in situations like this - which is a great shame, since so many politicians are also from the legal fraternity, and are reluctant to upset their friends.

The other missing piece in the saga is - who wins, and who loses. A classic example is what the author describes as the "Subprime Mortgage Scandal". We called these in Australia "Lo-doc" loans, indicating that they were made to people who had less than the usual amount of documented evidence of borrowing capacity - a steady wage, for example - which was typical of small business owners.

Despite all the slightly hysterical descriptions of isolated cases - and yes, there have indeed been instances of individual, rather than systemic, fraud - there is no parallel with the US situation, where loans of this type were bundled together and sold as AAA Securities. And the reality is that the vast majority of these loans - and there have been many thousands - are above water, and being properly serviced. In other words, the ability to borrow on lo-doc terms has benefitted a great number of people.

And a word to Arjay.

>>World debt is now 5 times the GDP of the planet<<

Rubbish.

http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

But let's imagine, just for a moment, that your figure is correct. Who owes what, and to whom? And another thought - who loses, if a debt cannot be repaid? Sadly, your complete lack of understanding of the basic facts of finance effectively disqualify you from commenting.

Not that this has ever stopped you, or ever will.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 31 October 2014 3:32:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Ah deceptive Periclueless your link is only Govt debt. Total Aust debt is over 5 trillion and we have debt half of most Western countries.
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

So we have a GDP of $1.5 trillion with a $5 trillion total debt. So our debt is 3.3 times our GDP. Our housing is 40% over valued.Our net foreign debt is approaching $1 trillion.

I think it was James Rickards who said our world debt is 5 times world GDP
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 1 November 2014 12:24:39 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
For those who want a grip on reality in regards to the economic stability of the planet this interview with James Rickards is a must see.

He wrote 'Currency Wars' and the 'Death of Money'.He says we are headed for a Great Depression that could last 25 yrs. The stock market capitalisation as a % of GDP ,is twice as high of the Great Depression of 1929.In other words the stock market is propped up by debt. Since 2006 US Corps have borrowed $4.3 trillion to buy their own shares to secure their salaries and commissions. They bet against their own shares going down via the derivative market.

His estimate of derivatives be 10 times the GDP of the planet is very conservative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYW5OGWfqJc
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 1 November 2014 1:03:54 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thanks for the very informative link Ajay, and for the most part you seem to be right on the money, if you'll pardon the deliberate pun.
Comparative graphs show debt under Keynesian economic theory,that every one dollar bought around 2.4 dollars worth of growth and continued until the event of Reganism, reduced taxes, and consequent less expenditure on national/nation building infrastructure; which was simply allowed to run down, but particularly, where privatization imposed it's profit heavy model, on the very foundation of any economy, energy and capital/essential service!
Today the numbers are very illuminating, and for every dollar of debt, the American economy produces 0.03 dollars worth of economic growth.
That means the current growth has been purchased with a huge growth in totally unsustainable debt.
The US Federal reserve is around 54 billions and supports a debt now totaling an unsustainable 4.5 trillion, or put in a way more easily understood; every one dollar of capital, now supports 77 dollars worth of debt.
There's a financial Perl Harbor in the wings, and Americans have been warned.
Already food stamps and supermarkets have largely replaced the soup kitchens of the Great depression.
[And the real if largely unreported unemployment is closer to 23%!? Unemployed non bread winners with employed partners are just not counted!?]
Even so, soup kitchens and the tent cities now abound in the rust belts of the mid west!
Were I a financial adviser, I would advise dumping share portfolios/equity/overvalued housing, and buying gold.
Which is the only thing in prospect of a rise, give the debt level and the impending collapse of the USD, as the preferred international currency.
The only part where I tend to disagree Ajay, is where you said our foreign debt was around one trillion; rather, it's closer to two!
Cheers, Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 1 November 2014 11:05:33 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rhrosty if you want to invest in precious metals suggest you do it soon. They've forced down their prices using the derivative market. Metal shares have dropped because prices are below the cost of production. For every oz of metals there are 100 pieces of paper laying claim to its existence.

Harvey Organ says price fixing will finish by the end of this year and China will determine this. He reckons China will run out of silver by years end. They need silver for nearly all their industries and they cannot stop production.

see Harvey here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwSiHBxm0c
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 1 November 2014 1:24:37 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As I said, Arjay, please stop pretending that you understand any of this.

>>Total Aust debt is over 5 trillion and we have debt half of most Western countries.<<

For a start, your "debt clock" includes "Private Sector Debt within the Banking System", which - if you were to think about it, instead of simply cut'n'pasting random numbers, are actually assets within the banking system.

For example, "housing debt" is underpinned by real bricks'n'mortar entities. In what way is this a problem? Business and personal debt is money that has been borrowed from Banks, and upon which interest is being paid. In what way is this a problem?

And, as usual, you can't keep yourself from talking about derivatives, of which you know precisely nothing, since you always add up both sides of the trade - the put and the call - without netting them off. I really thought that you might have understood this after all this time.

But hey, why let a few facts intrude on a conspiracy theory. You never have before, after all.
Posted by Pericles, Saturday, 1 November 2014 5:48:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So pericles are you saying private debt within the banking system does not count ? This represents our over inflated mortgages and business debt for which workers, not manipulators of the system must pay. This $5 trillion debt is over $400,000 for every working person or $800,000 for every household.

Rhrosty, Harvey Organ could well be wrong about how much gold and silver China possesses. He thinks China has 4500 -6000 tons. Some say as high as 30,000 tons. China/Russia do not want war as they are winning the peace. If China has hidden reserves they will quite willingly let the USA print their $ into oblivion, as this gives them time to get stronger. China is quite happy to buy up metals at below production costs. This could go on for months until people lose faith in the share market and the US $.

The next collapse is a mathematical certainty and it will be gigantic because all the money printing on the planet will not restore confidence. James Rickards thinks they will use SDRs of the IMF as the new reserve currency but China has other ideas.

China through the BRICS development bank may just take over the role of the US Federal Reserve and hold the planet in a new debt money slavery system. Unless the BRICS allow member countries to create their own credit, nothing will change. It will be the same old slavery and a different master.

When any one country or organisation gets too much power, the masses suffer. Nature finds strength in diversity, so how can their New World Order of Global Governance be good for the masses of this planet ?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 2 November 2014 7:44:15 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mostly agree Ajay, and that's two times in a single week! China is proposing a new development bank utilizing its huge holdings in USD!
Well what else could they do with them, recycle them for out house duties?
We are being asked to join as a founding partner!
And given a predictable future, exactly what we should do!
A place at the table is a better prospect than being forced to rely on the crumbs that fall from it!
If the Americans have a problem with that, then let them propose a brand new FTA, that actually hands us an advantage, rather than bleeds us white the way the current and huge USA trade advantage does now!
And that would underpin an ongoing reason to remain allied to America, as part of our defense shield.
Note I said defense!
Not American lead military adventurers, that are hardly in the national interest.
A better deal would allow us to earn the dollars we need to make ourselves truly independent of any other military alliance.
One notes South Vietnam had a similar USA military commitment, and only as good as the political will, and the whim and caprice of those who currently back it?
Fickle public opinion!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Sunday, 2 November 2014 12:31:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well yes, Arjay. Not that it "doesn't count", exactly, but that it is debt of an entirely different sort.

>>So pericles are you saying private debt within the banking system does not count ?<<

If you work out who owes what, and to whom, of course it should be treated separately from government debt.

>>This represents our over inflated mortgages and business debt for which workers, not manipulators of the system must pay.<<

The mortgages are supported by the bricks and mortar of the properties against which the loan was made. "Workers" borrowed the money in order to buy their house, and are expected to maintain their payments. Housing stock in Australia is worth over $5 trillion, while the mortages are for $1.4 trillion. Those loans are pretty secure, I'd say. So where is the problem?

Why am I having to explain this to you? Surely you know a little bit about how housing loans work??

Business loans are made to (guess what?) businesses, who use the money to grow their business and provide a better living for themselves. They borrow - presently at exceptionally low interest rates - and their borrowings appear as a liability on their balance sheet. The vast majority of businesses have positive equity - i.e. their assets exceed their liabilities. So where is the problem?

And why am I having to explain this to you? Surely you understand just a little bit about business?

There could be a problem if the economy (i.e. houseowners and businesses) cannot support the weight of debt - i.e., keep up the repayments. Currently, they can. While there is a worldwide problem with the prospect of deflation on everyone's financial radar, should it come to pass Australia would be better placed than most (as with the GFC) to ride it out.

You're just cut'n'pasting away from your favourite conspiracy sites, completely oblivious to reality.

Nothing changes.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 3 November 2014 12:26:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
These large banks should be ashamed of themselves with the money they are making from the working people under of the guise of looking after our best interests.
Paying a loan off to the CBA of $240,000 at 4.5% interest. After five years $180,000 has been paid with $223,000 remaining. So basically $17,000 has come off the loan. To me that is criminal. If we pay it off over the twenty five years we will have paid around 300%.
Ive noticed the late fee has increased to $10. Generally if the mortgagee cannot meet or is late with a payment they are possibly having financial difficulty, for which they are penalized. Those white collars are doing exceptionally well.
Posted by jodelie, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 6:44:07 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Periclueless, James Rickards was asked by the CIA to research how to detect terrorists via the finance markets. ie who has put options on shares .Look at 911 when lots of people made profits with put options on United Airlines. How did so many people know about 911 and make profits, yet the Govt was totally oblivious of this event?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYW5OGWfqJc

James Rickards has also done work for the US Federal Reserve so to say he is a conspiracy theorist who has no facts to back them up,makes you look like an even bigger fool.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 5:28:01 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oh please, Arjay, not that old story.

>>James Rickards was asked by the CIA to research how to detect terrorists via the finance markets. ie who has put options on shares .Look at 911 when lots of people made profits with put options on United Airlines. How did so many people know about 911 and make profits, yet the Govt was totally oblivious of this event?<<

You really do get suckered into these stories, don't you.

Here's actually what happened.

"A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades."

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

It wasn't knowledge of the 9/11 attacks that created the appetite for put options, but the fact that both airlines were going through a bad patch, business-wise.

But please, don't stop demonstrating your profound ignorance of financial matters, Arjay. It is always most entertaining, and always fun to shoot your madcap theories down in flames.

But of course, they're not your theories in the first place, are they, just random conspiracy junk that you pick up off the internet. If you had any theories of your own, that might be impressive. But you'd need to make them a bit more convincing than this pap.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 9:47:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Why did Larry Silverstein buy the lease for the twin towers just 6 weeks before 911 and insure them individually for $ billions against a terrorist attack? He bought the lease for a few hundred million $.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sr2XUpvz1E The twin Towers were full of asbestos and way beyond their useful date. Many floors were empty.

So Lucky Larry Silverstein failed to turn up to his favourite restaurant in the Towers on that fateful morning. He even said he ordered the third tower WTC7 to be pulled but did not realise that it takes weeks to wire a building for controlled demolition. Then he said I meant to pull the firemen out, but they were long gone.

Pericles, who was Larry's business partner ?
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 7:05:24 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Arjay, I am well aware of your 9/11 fixation.

>>Pericles, who was Larry's business partner?<<

Unfortunately, you seem to get your 9/11 "information" from the same places you get your "World debt is now 5 times the GDP of the planet" nonsense, and understand neither.

If you find yourself unable to stick to the theme of this thread - which, given your lack of knowledge on the subject, wouldn't surprise me in the least - by all means try to start up a separate 9/11 conversation.

But on a different forum, where conspiracy nuts can trade fanciful theories to their hearts content, without the need for evidence, or facts.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 6 November 2014 6:31:05 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy