The Latvian experience was very similar. My moth-in-law and her immediate family were deported east from their family farm. They escaped and walked to Germany, where they lived as refugees for 5 years before emigrating to Australia.

My father-in-law's story was similar, except that he was conscripted by the Germans and never again saw any member of his family.

The Museum of Occupation in Riga is a very challenging place to visit for those whose families were disrupted, never to be reunited, by the German and Russian years.

During a recent visit I became acutely aware that many ethnic Russians living in Latvia are doing it tough. Problems which take generations to build cannot be resolved in mere years.

My message: Ways must be found to reduce the problems faced by the Russian heritage residents of these formerly occupied nations. Many were born their and their parents also. Through no fault of their own, some Russian heritage Latvians (and Estonians, etc) now find life very difficult indeed and they are trapped in the country of their birth, neither Russian nor Latvian in many ways.

Peace is only found at the end of the two-way street called respect.

The author writes that MH17 is believed to have been shot down by pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine, but this is not believed by the many who take the time to read other than MSM photo-shopped press stories.
The author further alleges that Crimea was invaded by Russian troops and then stolen from the Ukraine. Many would argue differently. For starters, the Russian forces in Crimea were already there as part of the treaty giving Russia access to the Black Sea port in Sevastopol.
Democracy? They voted in Crimea and in the Donbass to secede from the Ukraine. Well?
What happened back in history when Stalin and Hitler walked across Europe is not the same as today. Nobody is saying what happened back then is what anyone wants to happen today, but to conflate then and now is to confuse and muddy today's story. Consider the recurring claims that Russia is crowding NATO. But in the real world, NATO has expanded up to Russia's borders and is crowding Russia. To pretend otherwise is an Alice-in-Wonderland argument.
The forces the Ukraine needs to muzzle come from within her own history and are backed by the EU and the US. They do not come from Russia.

The reference to MH17 in the article was a poor decision.

I don't know who was responsible for downing the jet and it is pretty much irrelevant to the remainder of the post.

Besides which, it has opened the door to crackpot theorists from both sides to use this post as a battleground for their fantasies. Halduell's comments, though no doubt he firmly believes them to be well founded, are essentially not relevant here.

As to the comment to the effect that secession is reasonable because of a single, unadvertised, uncontested, very much rigged vote in a restricted area of the country, does that mean that the Newcastle and Charlestown electorates of NSW, having voted Labor last weekend and with no Liberal Party candidates, are thus no longer part of Liberal-governed NSW? Or Australia?

Meanwhile, back in the Baltics nations...

>>Halduell's comments, ... are essentially not relevant here.<<

What then is relevant? Assessing, or even predicting, future intentions of Russia (or Germany) in the light of the attrocities commited by Soviets (or Nazis) three quarters of a century ago?

The author of this article brought MH17 into the mix, as she did the vote in Crimea and the Donbass. By commenting on her assertions I am merely pointing out another side of what she has chosen to make the story.
At the conclusion of JohnBennetts first post, he writes that ways must be found to reduce the problems faced by the Russian heritage residents of the formerly occupied Baltic States. He than adds, "Through no fault of their own, some Russian heritage Latvians (and Estonians, etc) now find life very difficult indeed and they are trapped in the country of their birth, neither Russian nor Latvian in many ways."
I would add, also through no fault of their own some Russian heritage Ukrainians now find life very difficult. They, too, are trapped in the country of their birth, they have seen the new government in Kiev threaten to ban the use of their first language, Russian, and they have been referred to by the then Prime Minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, as untermensch, or sub-human. As a result, many have voted to go their own way, and are, indeed, fighting for that option.
This is not irrelevant. These developments are determining the immediate future of Europe, and how that future will interact with Russia as she is today, not as she was in a previous incarnation.

I reiterate:
Both the initial author and Halduell raised the extreme example of disputed origin, the MH17.

Having done so, there is now little chance that the mundane, ordinary existence of the reasonable folk who find themselves unhappy and unsettled in the once-occupied lands will find peace any time soon.

Instead, we are reading comments about the need for distrust, division, internal war and meaningless, biased failed elections. They will provoke and prolong the existing disputes, not lead to peace and prosperity.

So, to both the author and to Halduell, I say "Thanks for nothing. You are both steering some beautiful, essentially helpless and peace-loving but troubled nations towards military solutions, which include destruction of infrastructure, destruction of societies and separation of families."

We have read your expectations of and justifications for war. Where are your thoughts as to how those wars can be avoided? Or, have you none?

You aren't in the arms sales business, by any chance?

@JohnBennetts
Posted Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:35:20 PM
And I reiterate:
I have responded to comments originating in this article which I believe to be not true, and which I further believe that left unchallenged will lead to great mischief including destruction of infrastructure, destruction of societies, separation of families and patently absurd comments uttered by our own PM, among others.
How to avoid the above? Respect the choices of the Russian speaking residents of Crimea and the Donbass, don't allow the US to impose economic sanctions on Russia for what was a black flag operation which blew up in its face and grant post WWII Russia the same right to "move on" that we have granted post WWII Germany.
You bemoan the irrelevancy of ideas you clearly don't share, yet you reference by-elections in NSW to make your dubious point and descend into ad hominum innuendo when that doesn't work. Irrelevancy indeed!

I dont see that Halduell has given any expectations or justifications for war, at least not in any comments in this article. All I see is valid points worthy of adding to the discussion, and he is right on many of them, including putting forward the solution.
The US has funded a 5bn campaign to bring Ukraine closer to the EU and Nato, and this goes against what was agreed upon with Russia at the fall of the Soviet Union.
The Ukraine having closer ties with the west is most certainly a security issue for Russia. Turkey is a Nato member state and this means Russian fleet is essentially trapped in the Black sea, but the US still is able to send submarines and warships there to provoke Russia further, as well as now influencing the Ukrainian government.
They've sent Academi (Blackwater mercenaries) troops to Ukraine.
Ukraine has also been forced to accept terms on an IMF loan that required them to fight back against the Russian separatists who were born and lived all their lives in Ukraine.
Ukrainian citizens are now being conscipted into fighting the US's wars and the tax rate has increased.

Halduell's points about banning the Russian language and provoking discontent are also valid. Add to that Kiews war plan to completely destroy all infrastructure in these separatist regions and starve the people out.

Joe Biden's son has been given lucrative oil contracts in Ukraine.

And some contend that Nikita Kruschev wrongfully gave Crimea back to Ukraine in 1954.

It's the US Military Industrial Complex that promotes wars for arms sales and then takes countries natural resources, Not Halduell. FYI

You want solutions? Ill quote him myself on this point because you obviously missed it.

Democracy? They voted in Crimea and in the Donbass to secede from the Ukraine. Well?

Im now forced to defend logical rational thinking and conclude by asking you a similar question - You arent a banker for the IMF, by any chance?

And I havent even read the damn article yet...

AC, I accept much of what you say and appreciate your spirited response.

I do not accept that any vote taken in the Crimea and the Donbass was either fair or indicative of the spirit of the people. Nor that it can justify splitting a nation.

I'll leave this thread now, because I have failed in my attempt to steer discussion away from extreme points of view and toward the common ground, which is where peace will eventually be found one way or another.

I think it was foolish of me to comment without actually reading the article.
That said I dont understand why geopolitical issues on another side of the planet need be reasons to divide us against each other to a point where it becomes personal attacks towards each other.
Sure, criticise me for commenting without reading the article.(I would've deserved it.)
Even say I am misinformed or making comments that aren't well thought out or openly oppose my opinion on the matter when you think I've got it wrong. But remember its only a discussion, and for a constructive discussion to occur we need to hear different points of view.
My only point was that I thought Halduell's points had merit and I see no need for arguments or ill-will towards others.
I apologise for hastily making the comment that I did without reading the article and giving it more thought, and for responding the way I did JohnBennetts.

One thing for sure is that Ukraine seems to be in the middle of a tug o tug of war between Russia and the west, and neither the Ukrainian people nor the Russian separatists will end up winners.
What the solution is I don't exactly know.
But it seems to me that the US is actively causing more provocation than Russia is and that they have more to benefit from this than anyone.

The author has certainly been on the receiving end to some unfair situations caused by the Soviet Union. But remember that some of these things occurred in times of war and the Soviet Union doesn't technically exist anymore. Russia in my opinion is now only trying to protect its national security because NATO is encroaching upon its borders.

Once again the problem here in my opinion is US foreign policy.
And to bring us all closer to nuclear war with Russia is foolish.

http://www.infowars.com/in-historic-shift-nato-member-poland-is-moving-thousands-of-troops-to-its-eastern-border/

Ukraine has the capacity and the resources to create a friendly and sustainable future with its neighbours as well as with the European Union, North America and Asia. It must avoid the disastrous policies and outcomes of Georgia under Sakashvili. Ukraine like Australia is a multicultural nation and it needs to build on these strengths and think long term. It can start by removing the Neo-Nazis from its Parliament and by understanding that all that shines in the West or the East is not gold.

Armchair Critic,

"And some contend that Nikita Kruschev wrongfully gave Crimea back to Ukraine in 1954."

Kruschev couldn't give Crimea back to Ukraine because Crimea was never part of Ukraine before 1954. Like Estonia, the Republic of Crimea was militarily forced to join Sovet Union.(fom the top of my head, about 1920). It still remained separate republic from Ukraine until 1954, when for bureaucratic reasons the politburo decided to incorporate the Republic of Crimea into Ukraine.

"But it seems to me that the US is actively causing more provocation than Russia is and that they have more to benefit from this than anyone."

"Russia in my opinion is now only trying to protect its national security because NATO is encroaching upon its borders."

I totally agree with these comments, Armchair Critic.