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The Forum > Article Comments > In search of wisdom > Comments

In search of wisdom : Comments

By Scott MacInnes, published 4/9/2014

The getting and begetting of wisdom - so revered in the past as a practical and spiritual necessity for both individuals and societies - seems to be sadly out of fashion in our present age.

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Happy 21st Elizabeth...

The paradox of the getting of wisdom is that the more one works towards it the further its obtaining recedes.
Posted by WmTrevor, Thursday, 4 September 2014 9:35:38 AM
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Some articles are just pure pleasure to read, and this was one of those rare pleasures, but particularly today, deep in a world of sham and drudgery.
Let me add my 4 cents worth.
I'm an old man and know a couple of things worth passing on?
Find what you really love doing, and then see if someone or something will pay you to do it.
Don't be afraid to dream, and indeed, follow that dream.
At the end of the day, one should never end it wondering, what if?
And don't be afraid to follow your heart, after all, the only person you can truly please is yourself, and if that then results in another's true enduring happiness; you've found your soul mate!
Finally, don't waste your life inside an unhappy marriage, the grief and a seriously shortened life is not worth the endless angst!
Move on and make a new start!
And if you can only make one person happy, make sure it's yourself.
Kids'll disappear soon enough and only want your input, when they've blown it or in trouble!
Don't ever ask your kids for permission to follow your own star or personal happiness!
They're the kids you're the responsible parent. Hopefully, occasionally.
Finally only ever worry about that which you have absolute control over; and that my friends, is the thoughts you choose to entertain in your mind, and through them, your attitude! Don't worry be happy.
Lastly, don't ever be afraid to ask for what you want.
The very worst thing that can happen is a no, or less discouraging, maybe/perhaps.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 4 September 2014 10:01:25 AM
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Nice enough essay. But it takes much much more than the essentially one-dimensional self-serving twinkie stuff that de Botton promotes on his website to actually incarnate and live a life informed by Real Wisdom, and thus to be a loving presence in the world.

Three references which provide essays and various kinds of art and pictures re what it really takes to live a life of Love and Wisdom.

First Principles: http://www.consciousnessitself.org
Elaborations:
http://spiralledlight.wordpress.com
http://www.beezone.com/whiteandorangeproject/index.html

This essay points out that there is a deeply inculcated taboo against Realizing higher forms of knowledge (gnosis) and Wisdom at the very roots of the Western mind and psyche. This taboo pervades and limits all of the knowledge, philosophy and so called theology taught in all Western universities (mind factories).
http://www.dabase.org/up-1-3.htm
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 4 September 2014 10:56:47 AM
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This didn't do much for me. I've never been one to ask for instruction in how to live my life. I don't need a personal trainer, a life coach, or a pile of others thoughts on paper, to tell me right from wrong.

I'm sorry Rhrosty "Find what you really love doing, and then see if someone or something will pay you to do it", has always proved very wrong for me.

Twice I have gone from a happy amateur playing games & having fun, to a professional in the field.

In both instances I had lost a great, if expensive hobby, turning it into just another, even if well paying job. The thing that you can greatly enjoy, even when you may be only moderately successful, becomes a chore when you have to always produce results. Yes it paid the bills, & gave me access to equipment I could never have afforded myself, but it took some of the fun, & the real joy out of it.

My daughter once came out of a show jumping ring, with a big smile, patting her horse. She had knocked one rail, regulating her to second, rather than a win in a major competition.

Someone asked her how she could look so happy with her horse when she had just missed the big prize. Her answer, because I love him, & he tried hard for me, what more can you ask.

That is the difference between being an amateur for whom winning is not everything, & a professional, for whom winning is essential.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 4 September 2014 12:40:36 PM
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Hasbeen:
As I read the article, it was advice to a daughter not a sour grapes killjoy, who not only knows all the reasons something can't be done, but even thinks it's all about him!?
I admire your Daughter, who clearly understands just doing the best you can, and is all you can ever expect from a horse.
And history abounds where horses have quite literally died trying.
Or where putting away the whip rather than over using it, produces superior outcomes!
And for all we know, your daughter, was responding to your own endless criticism?
That really does to seem to be your forte!
But particularly if you're limited in your expectations and personal belief.
I mean, self belief and people that help to reinforce that very quality, is also integral to success!
My youngest had trouble learning to swim and could only manage a few strokes before quitting.
I just said, she'd be reeling off length after length, within months!
True enough, that's exactly what happened.
Parents are believed, therefore need to be positive input people, who tell kids what they can achieve, not ones who try to succeed through their kids, or master the put down.
And success rarely has anything to do with money, but rather, passing that exam, just finishing a race etc.
Ricardo isn't driving the best or most powerful car either!
As usual, you've entirely misread the message/my advice to my, not your daughters, in your earnest objective, to deliberately rubbish/misunderstand Rhrosty.
It's not the fastest strongest man who wins the race.; but rather, the one who believes they can.
And that being so; those intent in following their own star, must learn to ignore your patently negative, can't do it, dream killing/killjoy water hazard input!
Quite frankly, old mate, I just don't give a rats what you believe, or what you could or couldn't do, but rather, hold you up as a shining example of still second class, how not to succeed/how to fail without really trying, arrogant advice!?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 4 September 2014 3:08:47 PM
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OK. We have here a father who, no doubt with lots of love and the best of intentions, has written a treatise to his daughter about the getting of wisdom.

Each paragraph is roughly a homage to each of the following wisdom imparters:

Alain de Botton, John Armstrong, Rembrandt, Raimond Gaita, Ronald Dworkin, F Scott Peck, Socrates, Oscar Wilde, Matthew Arnold, Jacob Bronowski, Michael Leunig, Mozart and Plato and so on …

Mmmmm … so what’s wrong with this picture? What exactly do all these people have in common?

It seems that this particular daughter - as with most daughters everywhere - is being subtly groomed to believe that a woman’s intellectual place is to sit with her hands in her humble little lap, while great masculine minds impart to her the secrets of the universe. More importantly, she is being subtly brainwashed to believe that women – i.e. half the world’s population and thus, half of humanity’s intellectual powerhouse – don’t have anything ‘wise’ to say.

OK. To be fair … he DID mention his mum who read him lots of stories, no doubt all written by men. And he did throw a crumb to author Marilynne Robinson.

But really, isn't the best kind of wisdom to impart to a daughter the confidence to look up to women as mentors and role models, just as much as men? In fact, it's not a bad piece of wisdom to impart to a son as well.
Posted by Killarney, Thursday, 4 September 2014 6:22:52 PM
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What exactly do all these people have in common?
Killarney,
They're all fruitcakes with natural aptitude.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 4 September 2014 9:11:51 PM
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I enjoyed this advice and wisdom.
I like a father who takes an interest in his daughter's mental well being.

Sure Killarney, a girl needs female role models etc, but she also needs positive male role models so she knows the right sort of guys (if she is into guys!) to get involved with.

If she sees how well her male relatives treat everyone else, then she will expect and demand at least the same from any men she meets in the future.
Girls need respect and wisdom imparted from both adult males and females.

No amount of positive female role models in a girl's life will help much if she ends up hooking up with an idiot!
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 4 September 2014 11:40:08 PM
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Suse

It's not enough to have positive role models of both sexes in a young girl's life, when the culture she grows up in treats the female experience as invisible.

Imagine a woman writing a letter like this for her son, only she barely mentions a single man at all and instead quotes from and cites a list of about 20 women as philosophical inspiration.

Such an action by a mother would be seen as weird and emasculating. It might even be seen as psychological abuse.

Yet, the converse is considered not only normal, but the actions of a caring father taking an interest in his daughter's mental wellbeing.

The cultural brainwashing of both boys and girls into believing that men are much more important than women starts from the cradle, and most of the time it's done in an atmosphere of caring and supportiveness, by people who love them.
Posted by Killarney, Friday, 5 September 2014 3:55:33 AM
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boys and girls into believing that men are much more important than women
Killarney,
Isn't that what set that whole insipid bandwagon rolling when the feminists started with making women more important ?
Posted by individual, Friday, 5 September 2014 7:54:27 PM
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Thank you for your comments.

I fear many readers may be under an understandable misconception that I need to correct.

Unfortunately, unbeknown to me, Graham decided - in the normal exercise of his editorial prerogative (over which I have no control) - to add the words “ advice to a daughter” to the title - something I would never have chosen to do, because I never thought of it in those terms.

The essay was not intended as advice, or “a treatise”, to my daughter, or anyone else. And I am absolutely sure my daughter understood the nature my gift perfectly in the context of our relationship, about which you know nothing. The suggestion that my daughter is “being groomed” is presumptuous.

The essay was deliberately framed as an imaginary speculation about the lessons two wise old men -admittedly shared by a present not so wise old man - might want to share from the tradition we all inherited, one that Killarney rightly points out is dominated by old men.

I look forward to the day when there will be a great female artist who will paint a similar work to Rembrandt entitled: “Two wise women conversing”. I wonder which, if any, of the five ‘lessons” would be rejected by such wise women elders. Certainly the two wisest women I consulted extensively in preparing this article - my daughter and my partner who come from different generations and backgrounds - both thought all five were crucially important.

The essay was intended as an invitation to readers to personally reflect on what lessons have been important in their own unique life experience, as taken up by Rhosty in his first comment. It was also intended as a guide to some of the sources of wisdom that have been important to many of my generation. Mostly it was intended as an invitation to respectful conversation.
Posted by Scott MacInnes, Friday, 5 September 2014 9:48:01 PM
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