Who’s to say that um, like… the use of ‘um’ and ‘like’ and the like isn’t making the language gooder?

The language is goin to evolve whether your like it or not. Let people speak as they will, just so long as it isn’t too overtly and gratuitously offensive.

We don’t want to demand that everyone speak prim proper Queen’s English all the time. That would be dangerous territory, where all those that don’t might get thought of very poorly and placed at a distinct disadvantage.

We do want to be broadly accepting of people, no matter how well or poorly or differently they may speak. Don’t we?

Ian, you ask, "So if people, like, from other nations, can, like, use English correctly as a second language, or others in our society can, like, speak clearly and coherently, like, what's wrong with trying to say it gooder?"

I am not so demanding and would accept the good faith of people who constantly attempt to improve their competence in speaking English betterer.

Ludwig

I would have thought that most people would want to try and express themselves in an articulate way rather than sink to the lowest common denominator. That is not to say that lack of education precludes them from society, but there seems little attempt by schools now to emphasise that a good quality of speech should be important. I get the impression that even the teachers of English have little grasp of grammar and why the standard of English is now so poor.

There seems to be an anti-culture climate these days when to speak & write well is considered to be elitist or superior. Unfortunately Australia has a tradition of such culture.

My favourite was NSW State Rail --or whatever they are known by this month-- putting someone with a treacle thick accent on their public address system. No doubt it earned them a lot of kudos for diversity.

SPQR, yes you are right there.
We should have an original Australian accent on all our PR systems...any of the Aboriginal languages.

@Susie,

<<We should have ...any of the Aboriginal languages>>

But which one Susie? Because there is no single Aboriginal language --just as there was no single aboriginal nation.

My point was, you do not sacrifice efficiency for progressives games like diversity!

While English is, and always has been, a "work in progress", evolving all the time, there is still a lot to be said for speaking confidently and concisely.
As a single parent I made myself very unpopular by insisting my three spoke "proper", no ums, errs or likes allowed. It wasn't only the sproggs who objected, other parents also passed negative commentary on my constant harping about it.
Now that they are all grown they have found that their speech has greased their way in the world, good careers, regular promotions and a healthy respect from all those around them etc, and they now thank me for it.
Humans stand out from the animal kingdom for their communication, why be sloppy about that?

This was taken from a high school text
"Changing Australians: a Social History),
for year 12 students as an example of -

"Learning the lingo."

"He said, "Fellow Australians, both old and new.
I'm glad to see yus here for this important
ceremony. In welcomin' yus, on behalf of Council
though. I would stress one point, important to all
of you, who are wanting to be nationalized. I
would urge you all to learn to speak English
properly. I know that, in my own particular line,
which is plumbin', I often have the greatest
difficulty in understandin' what some of yus are
talking about when you endeavour to describe what
is wrong with your sinks, baths, or cisterns - as
the case may be. Now this is only one instance of how
important it is for reffos - er - new citizens - to
learn to speak English properly, I mean ter say, if
you can say "comment tallez vous" in your own tongue,
isn't it just as easy to say, "How are yus going,"
in English? So listen to the old Aussies around yer,
and in next to no time yus'll be spoutin' English
left, right and centre, just like the best of us."

Two common pretexts for slovenly English:

* "The language evolves, Mate"
* "Oh well, they'll know what I mean"

The three-word slogan for promoting slovenly English:

* Ignorance is strength

A truth about language:

* Meticulous thinking requires meticulous language

A horror I read in this morning's on-line Guardian:

* The noun "illicit" when the fool meant the verb "elicit" (Yes his thinking was slovenly too - he was mistaking the sugar coating woven into Islam for its message.)

There aren't many things that grate me more than the academic "um". For people so educated using this abominable uttering is a clear indication that education does not improve intelligence.

There are err's from yiz and youse but then there are outrageous foreign accents that border on Italo-Espanola.

Hence we have sexy Sofia severely outing Ozzy's Own Julia Guillard's ACTU-cockney accent http://youtu.be/bBA7Ashxfig 20 seconds in. Then Sofia indulges in severe R rolling from 1 minute, 5 seconds. VerrrrrrEEEE Gud.

The way Sofia trills "stump-jump plow" is heaven :)

I agree. The level of articulation is quite bad. I particularly noticed this when at an international airport recently, and standing beside me in the queue were some Australian teenagers: "it's like, you know, and I was like, you know, then it was like, you know." My goodness.

"The language is goin to evolve whether your like it or not. Let people speak as they will, just so long as it isn’t too overtly and gratuitously offensive."

This approach will truly see Australia become the "white trash of Asia".
Professionals of all descriptions will take those more seriously who can articulate themselves well.

It doesn't pay to get too fancy. "Illicit" is an adjective, not a noun

May I commend to you folk of OLO this highly giggleful clip of teen-speak-when-the-teen-doesn't-realy-feel-like-communicating.

"Sort Of Dunno Nothin'"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_veIGGP1Uh4

Here's a good one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnuf9-zgdyw

I'm told Kylie Mole grew up to be a Greens MP.

The youth of every generation get playful and creative with the language. Not all of it is laziness. I'd call it 'colloquial fashion'.

As a child of the seventies, I grew up when everything good was 'unreal' and everything bad was a 'bummer', neither of which you hear anymore. However, some of this youthspeak tends to stick and eventually merges into the vernacular. 'Sucks' keeps on keeping on and 'cool' is still going strong even though it dates back to the fifties beatniks.

(PS Thanks for the Kylie Mole memories, SPQR. Unreal!)

Hi SPQR

Kylie Mole's delivery is so ultra articulate, despite the slang. Quite the opposite of deadpan with a vengeance "Sort Of Dunno Nothin'" (tah Poirot )

Tis a vicious rumour that Kylie Mole became a Green.

Instead she's a balanced human bean.

Real name Mary-Anne Fahey (born 1955) - now an actress, comedian and writer - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary-Anne_Fahey . She wrote a book with about the longest title ever:

"I, Nigel Dorking: An Autobiography about a Boy with an Unusual Vocabulary, a Suit of Armour and an Unshakeable Dream, Written by That Very Boy (Nigel Dorking), Grade Six"

which I reckon might have been inspired by Kylie's delivery and the (recently) late Sue Townsend's "Adrian Mole" series.

I'm feeling long in the tooth already :)

Pete

Fellows of OLO,

I am thinking that the English is indeed a language of evolvement but the usage of "ums" and "ers" falls into a category of undesirableness,
and they should be thought of as intolerables.
Please to be excusing any intrusion of the quaint into this, my post, as English is, to me, being a second language.

I am

When my brother became a public spokesperson for an institution, he was often interviewed for TV and radio. Initially there were many "ums" and "ers", but he had the intelligence to take public speaking lessons.

@SPQR,

"But which one Susie? Because there is no single Aboriginal language --just as there was no single aboriginal nation."

Learning more about the 250 Aboriginal language groups is one of my interests. There appears to be little written about them. I made inquiries at a major NAIDOC Week event and got nowhere. At the National Museum of Australia bookshop I came across a very small book which had a page or two of native words. So if the language is only documented to that extent how can someone stand up in front of a crowd and "welcome it to country" speaking in the local native language. I'd like to see what was said tested on others claiming to be of the same tribe. I've got a feeling that the words spoken are no more authentic than the signing done by the signer at Nelson Mandela's commemoration ceremony.