yvonne, slightly off target but I've been thinking a bit lately about part of the sentiment in "The Left is probably more prone to being 'tolerant' giving them the label of being moral relativists."

Not sure there whether the term Left or Progressive fits better but I hope the flow makes sense.

I've got the impression that for many its a different set of things that are tolerated rather than being more tolerant. If your cause is not an approved progressive cause then the intolerance from the Left/progressives or lack of concern/compassion is just as brutal as anything the Right or Conservatives can dish up. The compassion issue ends up in a different space but for me the divide on tolerance is not the Left/Right divide, rather around State control vs personal automomy views.

Both the Left/Right or progressive/conservative camps (and I don't see them as quite the same thing but thats another complexity) are quite capable of using the power of the state brutally to enact intolerance on those deemed to be out of line with approved causes. Individuals on both sides are capable of great personal compassion as well.

As to the article itself, whilst intolerance drives a portion of the anti-muslim sentiment I think there are also some good reasons why some are concerned about the growth of that faith. Christianity has had its horror periods but for most its had its reformation. There are still some utterly vile christians around but for the most part at this point in history there does not seem to be any broad acceptance within christianity of the extremism that seems to mark islam.

There are also issues of cultural fit and the impact on others of some cultural habits/practices that rightly concern some. Dismissing all that as intolerance does not further the debate at all.

R0bert

George -- for the record I am quite happy to regard Stalinism, and Marxism in general, as a religion which was and is just as irrational as any traditional faith. It wasn't the absence of religion which resulted in the tragedies that took place under Communism; it was the attempt to shore up and justify a political philosophy which had no foundation in actual human behaviour. And allowing paranoid psychopaths to occupy positions of power wasn't a terribly good idea either. ANY system where your status is determined by the purity of your faith, rather than your administrative competence, is going to throw up similar abuses.

Jon J,
>> I am quite happy to regard Stalinism, and Marxism in general, as a religion<<

This is the point : you are “quite happy” to redefine terms to suit your prejudices. I do not know what personal experience you had with the reign of Marx-Leninism, but I can assure you that they certainly did not consider the world view they forced upon us as religious. Theirs was explicitly and proudly atheist; “scientific atheism” was the name of the subject we all had to go through with. Of course, if you redefine religion as anything that is bad, then saying that doing without it is a good thing becomes a tautology.

I did not live under the Nazis, so I would never try to explain to a Jew who had that experience that “I was quite happy” to redefine his experience as something else from what he experienced, and quite common in human history.

Robert
I agree. In political matters tolerance is not defined by the things you agree with or approve of, but how you deal with things you disagree with and disapprove of. Both left and right, progressive and conservative are capable of intolerance.

It is one of the things that makes me uncomfortable with “political correctness”. While I agree with most of the causes it espouses – racial and gender equality, multiculturalism etc – I am very uncomfortable with the way it tries to silence or delegitimise dissenting views.

yvonne "The Right is likely to be less tolerant as in their world view there are more clear descriptive notions on right and wrong."

Less tolerant with regard to fewer, but more important matters.

The left are tolerant of anything they know will undermine tradition and less tolerant about a million trivialities, like the absence of a woman on a company board or an "offensive" Facebook comment nobody ever read, until they made a big fuss about it.

Jon J "Communism... a political philosophy which had no foundation in actual human behaviour"

Like multiculturalism.

How many *persons* actually live their lives in multiple cultural realities?
And how many practice and identify with *one*?

Yet we are to believe what is *not* true of 99% of individuals (a multicultural person) can be and *should* be true of nations ("a multicultural country"), even countries with a relatively homogenous history.

George "you are 'quite happy' to redefine terms to suit your prejudices"

Sock it to 'em, George.

Rhian, that was very well put.

R0bert