Well, this is a good news story!
And one we need encourage, with all possible means, to continue to continue!
Rhrosty.

Great news and a great article, Joe. Hope to see more of like it.

Something tells me that this a deceiving & inaccurate report to con more funding out of some ignorant senior bureaucrat. It needs to be looked into for accuracy.

Thank you Rhosty and SPQR, that makes it all worthwhile :)

Individual,

Try to find one single inaccuracy, be my guest. If you want the full database, just email me on: joelane94@hotmail.com

It's all there.

Why is it that people can't get their head around Indigenous success ? It won't stop, you know - Indigenous people will keep coming to university, they will keep graduating. Fifty thousand by 2020.

What might be the implications for Indigenous society, for Indigenous policy, and for the fundamental re-working of the relationship between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people ?

Quite traumatic, isn't it :)

Joe
www.firstsources.info

Joe, I dont at all doubt the figures, I just question how "indigenous" some of these people are, and what type of circumstances they live in. If they possess only a small amount of indigenous blood and grew up in a town or suburb with the same access to educational facilities as non indigenous kids then I don't consider the figures an accurate picture of indigenous achievement. It's like health statistics. The huge number of healthy, middle class, barely indigenous distorts the picture of indigenous health.

I would prefer to see figures based upon students who do not have the same access to education as most Australian kids, or suffer discernible disadvantage due to their obvious aboriginality. Unfortunately I already know what rural and remote education is like for these kids. Truancy levels are at an all time high. Indigenous leaders are desperarely trying to get kids into school, and failing magnificently.

40 years ago, all indigenous kids in the North went to school, because if they didn't they had the priest or minister knocking on the door wanting to know why. Those in missions had no choice. No school, no food. The only ones who missed out were those whose parents worked on stations and if the managers wife didn't take an interest in the kids, then frequently they got no schooling.

I totally understand your interest in indigenous education and your excitement in these figures, but from where I am standing I see a massive failure in even getting the kids to school. It's not the kids' fault, or the education dept. It's the lack of parental sense of responsibility and lack of understanding of the consequences of being uneducated.

Many people, both black and white are trying to solve the problem. I can only hope they find a solution soon, because literacy levels today here are worse than they were 40 years ago.

Thanks Joe,

Along the lines of what Big Nana asked, do you think that it is the choice to live in rural/remote areas, without access to quality education and jobs is the major problem here.

Personally I don't see that the "aboriginality" or the amount of "aboriginal blood" (people still say this?) would have any significant effect on outcomes compared to other factors such as upbringing, socio -economic status, or access to resources.

Quite traumatic, isn't it :)
Loudmouth,
Big Nana expressed my sentiments perfectly. I challenge your invitation to find a single inacuracy by asking you to tell me what percentage of these "inndigenous" are actually indigenous not simply white decesndents claiming to be indigenous. If such people are included in your term of indigenous then would it not be more accurate to state students of "indigenous descent" ?
I am surrounded by such people where I live so I do know what I am talking about. They're fine until do-gooders with a finger in that pie put them on pedestals they never needed to mount.

Thanks, Big nanna and Individual,

I'm simply citing the figures. There is no means of gauging, as you would require, the degree of Indigenous ancestry of the students and graduates who are counted. If you wish, I can change the title of the database to the "Indigenous and people of, or claiming to have, Indigenous descent, higher education database 2013".

In another paper, I hope to focus on precisely what you are highlighting, on the reasons for the growth in numbers, in the growth of two populations, one oriented to work and the other condemned to lifelong welfare, and the implications for that 'Gap' in the near future. Just give me a few days :)

But the facts remain, however the situation may be defined: there are, year after year, record commencements at universities by students of Indigenous descent, record gradation numbers, and a total of around thirty six thousand people of Indigenous descent who have graduated from universities.

And yes, that women of Indigenous descent are commencing university study at a better rate than non-Indigenous Australian men: 2 % of all Australian women commencing studies in 2013 were of Indigenous descent, as against a population of about 2.4 % of that of non-Indigenous women - five-sixths; while non-Indigenous Australian men are commencing (42%: 58%) at less than three-quarters of the rate of women.

I wonder if, apart from the students and graduates themselves, if anybody in Australia finds this information positive or heartening. The elites don't, they would prefer that only tiny numbers were coming through so that they could preserve their privileged positions as part of the Mighty Few. But 36,000 are not Few. University education has been for some time, a mass enterprise, for people of Indigenous descent.

They didn't cause the 'Gap' and it is not up to them to slow down or stop, in order for the 'Gap' not to get wider. As people of Indigenous descent have usually done, they are making their own decisions about their own futures, free of elite 'control' or policy dictates. And good on them.

Cheers,

Joe

Joe, of course I am heartened by the figures, but my point is, many years ago many of these people would not have even identified as indigenous, but they were graduating from uni anyways. The figures I would like to see is those that cover rural and remote schools only. This is where the biggest failure lies. Many parents in these areas simply do not grasp the essential nature of education, or if they do, can't be bothered fighting with the child to make them go to school. These same parents then complain loudly and long about white people running their communities.
I see that the government is going to expand and improve the penalty system for failure to send kids to school. This may well be the only workable system ATM, because, as in every other area, money talks.
In the NT, English is a second language for many, but in the Kimberley, language has almost died out, and English is the first language in the communities. There is no excuse for kids not succeeding in these schools. They are certainly smart enough, and incredibly resilient and inventive. Given the chance these kids could do wonders with their lives. So now we have to force the parents to give these kids that chance.

many years ago many of these people would not have even identified as indigenous,
Big Nana,
This remark is really uncanny in my experience. I recall so-called mixed race people who 30 years ago would have thumped you if you referred to them as indigenous. Many years later they would have thumped you if you referred to them as white. Of course now their descendents are as pale as I but they're indigenous despite the influence of outside genes.
I recall not that long ago when a so-called indigenous whose great-grandmother was an indigenous was awarded with a very high award for indigenous achievement. If the average person were to be asked as to what heritage that person is I guarantee that indigenous would come last.
I applaud anyone who achieves by merit but I strongly object to racial heritage being classified as merit. We have too many people awarded this way & unfortunately it goes to their heads & the result of that is abysmal failure & disappointment when they are inducted into the public service.
This hypocitical fawning is to the detriment of our society & even more so the wrongly applauded individuals.

Big Nanna and Individual,

I mostly agree with both of you but I don't think it's all that relevant: people of Indigenous descent have to do something with their lives, like anybody else, and they are deciding to go on to university. If other people want to sit back and ait for cargo, that's their choice too. If anybody wants to get off their backside and give university a go, then they have my full support.

I don't know how you would identify whether, or to what extent, graduates of Indigenous descent came from this area or that, apart from the rather crude measure of which university had so-many graduates, and which one had so-many commencements etc. I'll give that a go.

There have been stark differences in institutional performance and state-level success, depending primarily on the enthusiasm with which universities' senior management encourages and funds Indigenous support programs to publicise, promote, recruit and prepare new students, and protects those federally-provided funds from the Indigenous Studies area.

Other factors may include the proportion of special-entry students, external and on-line students, and those enrolled in Indigenous-focussed awards (courses), all of which, especially if coupled with poor support services, are risk factors: so, the odd university which leans towards ALL of these factors tends to have horrific drop-out rates, high commencement compared to low continuation rates, and relatively poor graduation rates. As students have turned away from external and Indigenous-focussed awards, and as far more Indigenous students enrol after completing Year 12, their clear preference is for internal, mainstream and degree-level enrolment.

for example, Commencements by Institution [Table 8 of Database]:

Some universities have experienced a doubling of Indigenous commencements since 2006, while commencements have actually declined at others. Universities in New South Wales as a whole, for instance, increased their commencement numbers by 110 %. Commencements at the University of NSW more than tripled between 2006 and 2013. Victoria and Queensland both experienced an improvement in commencements of around 90 % since 2006.

[More to come]

[continued] Continuations by Institution [Table 10]:

This key variable, continuation numbers, rose by 10.3 % in the year to 2013. But continuation numbers in NSW as a whole rose more than 15 % in the one year and continuations rose by nearly two-thirds at Charles Darwin.

Both Flinders and the University of Adelaide experienced significant improvements in their continuation numbers, of 20 % and 18.5 % respectively. Neither has a significant external, or Indigenous-focussed, suite of programs. On the other hand, numbers rose only 8 % in Western Australia and 9 % in South Australia as a whole.

Continuation numbers actually declined at the Universities of SA and Tasmania, and at the Australian Catholic University, and for Victoria as a whole by 4.5 %, including a massive drop of 15 % in continuation numbers at Victoria University.

Continuations rose nationally by 50 % between 2006 and 2013, a trend-line of 5.2 % increase per year. But as with commencements, institutional performace was extremely variable. At Charles Sturt, continuation numbers rose a phenomenal 153 %. At the University of NSW, and at the University of Western Sydney, continuation numbers rose by more than 60 %. The University of Newcastle did even better, with almost a doubling of continuing numbers, 94 %. Something is going right in NSW.

Not entirely: continuations at the University of Technology, Sydney, declined by nearly 18 % over those years. There is a possibility that some universities have relatively large intakes of new Indigenous students, but poor preparation and orientation programs or none at all, and subsequently high drop-out and poor continuation rates.

[Even more to come]

people of Indigenous descent have to do something with their lives, like anybody else, and they are deciding to go on to university.
Loudmouth,
I can't see a single thing wrong with that. Where I do see much wrong is when pretend or unwarranted claiming of indigenous status is being heavily subsidised by our tax dollars. I think most people who are pulling their weight in society would have a problem with that, it just doesn't get the publicity. Our indigenous students even get pocket money from the State & free travel & schooling whereas non-indigenous do not. So, if a really watered down heritage is claimed for finanicial gain then it really is fraudulent or at the least it lacks integrity.

Individual, I'm not so sure that the financial incentives are any greater now for Indigenous students than for any others.

But just to complete the picture of how different institutions have been performing in relation to Indigenous students:

Graduations by Institution [Table 9 of the Database]:

More than seven hundred Indigenous students in NSW graduated in 2013, more than Victoria and Queensland together. But South Australia, once a leader in Indigenous student performance, contributed barely 5 % of the national total in 2013 – total graduations there declined compared to the previous year's graduations, the total pulled down by the poor performance of the University of SA. In fact, Charles Sturt alone graduated more Indigenous students than all South Australian universities together in 2013.

Graduation numbers in 2013 were 54 % better than in 2006, with NSW and Victoria's numbers increasing by around 90 %. Again, Western Australia experienced least growth, with 20 % fewer graduates in 2013 than in 2006, pulled down by Curtin's decline of more than 40 % since 2006.


Retention and Attrition by Institutions [Table 10]:

Indigenous student retention from 2012 into 2013 averaged about 73 %, i.e. attrition averaged 27.2 % overall, but only 23 % for students in award-level courses, reflecting the fact that bridging course students usually spend only a year in their courses, and then take other pathways.

State-wide, NSW and Victoria had retention rates that were 20 % or so above the national average, South Australia and Queensland had average attrition rates, while Charles Darwin, the University of Tasmania, and Western Australian universities – apart from the University of WA – averaged well below national retention levels.

[TBC]

Loudmouth,
As I said, if they were to seriously look into this the findings would shock many.

Individual,

I've been pondering some of the same issues for forty years or more. A very good friend (now deceased) who had, like me, married an Indigenous woman, used to agonise (and probably had arguments with his wife) over to what extent their beautiful blond, blue-eyed kids were Aboriginal, and at what point of intermarriage would it no longer be relevant to talk about Aboriginality. Of course, in those prickly days, nobody talked about being 'part-Aboriginal' any more. But the issue keeps coming up, much more so now than forty years ago.

Another issue that you may have alluded to, is the possibility of non-Indigenous people claiming Indigenous status and putting the figures out of whack. Yes, indeed, but again, by definition, how does one assess the incidence of that sort of fraud ? My wife and I worked in Indigenous student support over the 25 years, 1981-1005, and occasionally had experience of non-Indigenous trying either to make use of the relaxed entry qualifications, or - playing a longer game - 3expected to move into some secure Indigenous-reserved position.

Invariably, if a student was Indigenous, when you asked about their mob, or their country, you would find out in ten seconds or less. A phony would equivocate, and usually name some place far, far away.

One bloke tried this and mentioned a small town, and when I said 'Oh yeah, my wife's aunty lived there, what was your mum's name?' he mumbled something about 'stolen generation'. I gave him a 'family tree' form that I hurriedly put together and never saw him again. He got into another, more casual, program, and became their 'Aboriginal Scholar of the Year', and from there, leap-frogged into a policy position in Canberra.

It could get brutal: when my wife asked one person about her Aboriginality, she replied, 'If you ask me that again, I'll take you to court.' She also is now in a senior position. The union, the NTEU, was utterly useless, it would never come to the defence of staff over issues like this.

So ....

[TBC]

[continued]

So yes, both problems exist. How much, who can say, perhaps a quarter in total ?

Census data can be used to crudely gauge the numbers of graduates in states and regions and districts and 'communities' - but even then, one can't say if graduates are local or from urban areas.

Perhaps one way to estimate local-area participation at universities is to see how often, or if at all, universities send out promotional material or publicity teams to motivate people to apply for enrolment.

But I suspect that not much of that is being done these days, not like twenty or twenty five years ago. I recall sending out two thousand information packages, to every high school in Australia, and visiting twenty or thirty schools each year, but nobody seems to be doing that now.

Some universities regularly experience large commencement numbers (in 2012) but poor continuation numbers in 2013. One can't help feeling that some universities boost their Indigenous numbers with large intakes of poorly prepared students (perhaps Special Entry students, and perhaps enrolled externally and interstate as well), and tolerate high drop-out rates.

Conversely, sandstone universities tend to be much more circumspect about their intakes, with low intakes, few Special Entry students, lower than state-average enrolments, but much lower attrition rates.

But since 2005, some universities have outstanding commencement, enrolment and graduation numbers, AND average or high retention as well: Charles Sturt, Flinders, Griffith and ANU are good examples of such broad success.

And yet Indigenous student performance has improved sharply. How has this come about ? And what might be the consequences, the implications, on Aboriginal society of large numbers of university graduates in the near future, if not already ? What might be the consequences for Indigenous society and 'community' of, say, fifty thousand graduates by 2020, or 100,000 graduates by 2030-2032 ? Will the 'Gap' close or widen as a consequence ?

But those are the subjects of another paper :)

Cheers,

Joe