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The Forum > Article Comments > The emperor with clothes > Comments

The emperor with clothes : Comments

By Bruce Haigh, published 28/7/2014

On this issue Abbott has shown greater leadership skills than Barack Obama and other leaders whose nationals were affected by the criminal tragedy.

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Tony Abbott has not made any remark concerning the slaughter of innocent people in Gaza, as terrible as Flight M17 is his silence is deafening on this situation, perhaps it is because his friend the USA is supplying weapons of mass destruction to Israel, all rockets do the same thing, kill many children and all children are precious whether they are being blown out of the sky or crushed under collapsing buildings, there is so much horror in the world that we should not have a one eyed view on any situation, unfortunately Tony Abbott does just that.
Posted by Ojnab, Monday, 28 July 2014 11:23:18 AM
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I'm not sure where the kudos if any really lies.

I think both Abbott and Shorten (although Shorten was by far the least impressive) overstepped the mark to a degree and the result was Julie Bishop, for a period, was not given access to the Russian Foreign Minister nor his deputy nor indeed anyone in the department.

Sure Australia as a member was able to get a UN Security Council Resolution up, albeit modified, but it is hard not to remember Abbott's strident remarks about Australia's bid for a seat on this council.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/scrap-un-security-council-bid-abbott-20100720-10itr.html

From my reading while we were banging the drum at the Council, not that I object to the drum being banged one bit, it was the Malaysian Prime Minister's personal negotiations with the separatists that secured the black boxes and ensured the passage of the victim's remains.

“Meanwhile, a train carrying the remains of the majority of the victims has left the crash site, after the Malaysian prime minister reached a deal with the leader of pro-Russian separatists controlling the area. For days the bodies have been kept in refrigerated railway wagons at a small station 15 kilometres from the crash site, prompting fury from nations demanding the bodies be repatriated.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-22/mh17-un-backs-australian-resolution-condemning-plane-downing/5613214

I always felt Abbott's injudicious positions on foreign policy while in opposition showed a real desire for personal gain over Australia's best interests and was a major weakness, Shorten's effort has come close to matching it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 28 July 2014 12:09:43 PM
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I take great issue with the myopic and one-sided interpretation of events in Ukraine as shown by this author.
For Example:
"military bastardry displayed by Soviet advisers, rebels and militia in the Ukraine." - and by American advisors, coup leaders and rogue neo-nazi elements in the Ukraine armed forces?
"asylum seekers are here to stay for as long as the world allows people like the Russian separatists sway" - and no work on the asylum seekers coming from American theatres of conflict such as Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran?
"Already the US has said that rebel forces are likely to have fired the Russian BUK missile in error at MH17." - and no hint that the evidence is yet to be collected and forensically examined?
"Putin is very much a player in events leading to the shooting down of MH17." - and no mention of Obama being a player is the same events leading to the shooting down of MH17?
The author has clearly already made up his mind and pushed the Blame Russia button. Not objective. Not responsible. Not good journalism.
Posted by halduell, Monday, 28 July 2014 12:17:20 PM
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IMHO Abbott's "grief" and anger is confected as are all his actions. Any genuine compassion would be apparent in his government's treatment of asylum seekers. His stunning silence on the appalling and criminal behavior of Israel in Gaza stands as testament to his weather vane personality.

In respect of Julie Bishop she seems to applied the famous death stare to the Ukraine government causing its immediate collapse.
Posted by Peter King, Monday, 28 July 2014 12:17:35 PM
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Oh, right. We are talking about this guy, are we not?

"Russia has responded angrily to Prime Minister Tony Abbott, describing his comments about the Malaysia Airlines tragedy as 'unacceptable'".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/russia-says-abbott-comments-mh17-downing-unacceptable/5608852

"Abbott appeared to go further than other Western leaders in apportioning blame over the crash, demanding that Moscow answer questions about the "Russian-backed rebels" that he said were behind the disaster."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-airlines-abbott-idUSKBN0FN09220140718

Hardly the actions of a statesman on the world stage. More those of a cynical parochial down-home politician, milking the tragedy for all the votes he can squeeze from it. Sadly, the polls already reflect the effectiveness of this thoroughly reprehensible stragtegy.

Mr Haigh is clearly reading from the Abbott Authorised Version when he avers...

"Already the US has said that rebel forces are likely to have fired the Russian BUK missile in error at MH17. Whilst the latter might be true, the former is unlikely."

To me, a rash action by a trigger-happy rebel unit is by far the most convincing explanation. To subscribe to the "it woz Putin wot dunnit" school of thought is to manufacture the most unlikely chain of events - why this flight? why now? and even more to the point, cui bono?
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 28 July 2014 1:40:09 PM
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What a load of partisan dribble!
Abbott and his flunky have been a sideshow to the main event, and only because we and the rest of the world stand aghast at his absolute LACK of diplomatic skills, and his willingness to display the same.
He has quite simply attempting to cash in on dead Australians for home points, and I'd imagine he's quite pleased to find a group of Aussies who won't go "off-message" on him, no living ones could be so trusted.
This alleged "man" has no shame, and NO sense of empathy with Australians in general, no-one but his rusted-on fan-club is fooled for one minute by his posturing and prancing, he's a national embarrassment.
He's an all-time perfect example of the Peter Principle, he's "risen to the level of his incompetence"
He wasn't even a very good Opposition leader, all he ever achieved was disrupting Parliament, hardly a recommendation, and he's clearly proved his lack of nous by his complaints that the Australian population are in the wrong, because they don't support his program to take Australia backwards to the 19th century, he just doesn't seem to understand the meaning of "Democracy", all he sees or wants is Power, anything else is beyond his grasp.
Posted by G'dayBruce, Monday, 28 July 2014 2:28:12 PM
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Notice the difference between the first Russian & Putin responses to
the accusation as to who downed the aircraft and later response.
At first Putin had not been informed of what really happened and then
later he got the true story.

To start tying the MH17 story to Gaza and how it should change the
governments attitude to that disaster and then to the so called asylum
seekers is just errr, hmmm yuk.

As to the asylum seekers, I see we are now expected to take those
from India as well. How many 100s of millions ?
It is bad enough the other asylum seekers, they are mostly moslems
and they are the very least we need thank you.

As to Gaza as one commentator said we are all just getting bored with
the whole thing.
Until Hamas and other Islamic fundamentalists are prepared to accept
that Israel, will not just disappear in a puff of smoke, just to
suit them, the present situation will continue.

The Islamic demand, which is in compliance with the Koran, is just
unrealistic.
The Isreales are just expected to pack up and sail away into the sunset.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 28 July 2014 2:45:27 PM
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@Bazz,

I don't think we are tying MH17 to Gaza or asylum seekers. Rather the article is a flawed proposition that Abbott has behaved in a non political, statesman like mode to the tragedy.

"The Islamic demand, which is in compliance with the Koran, is just
unrealistic.
The Israeles are just expected to pack up and sail away into the sunset."

No but if they acknowledged that historical events handed them the Palestinian lands on a plate and their response to terrorist attacks from Hamas (hand made rockets don't quite compete with fighter jets, Blackhawk attack choppers and high tech weapons)was proportionate then we wouldn't; be having this sidebar discussion.
Posted by Peter King, Monday, 28 July 2014 3:48:40 PM
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Once again the rabbott shames and embarrasses Australia on the world stage.

The only thing abbott has ever been any good at is aggression and bullying. This is the last thing needed in regard to this, or any other, tragic disaster.
He does not care about those killed he just sees a Tampa or a Port Arthur he can call his very own. A chance for statesmanship on the back of fear, division and deception.

If anyone thinks this will prompt abbott and the rest of the lieberals to actually give a toss about the rest of us they have rocks in their head. These scum only ever get more extreme, more hateful and more prepared to attack those who cant fight back.

This is just a distraction that they will milk for all it is worth. Anything to get their hated budget and massive LIES off the front pages.
Posted by mikk, Monday, 28 July 2014 4:08:46 PM
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Peter said;
historical events handed them the Palestinian lands on a plate

No just the reverse, the area had been for a few thousand years first
Jewish and then Jewish and Christian, long before the Arabs came from
Arabia with a religious zeal to convert or kill the infidel.
That is still their aim.
What do you think was the cause of the crusades ?

The Koran commands them to kill or convert.
They may let you stay for a while provided you pay the Jizah tax.
Hence the latest over the top arrival of the ISIS.

If you think it is all a big joke then it will be your head (literally).
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 28 July 2014 4:21:51 PM
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It is our own Abbott and Bishop, Catholics to a man, who have performed like grand prophylactics, blocking Putin's* penetration of the very maidenhead of Orthodox Christendom.

The Russians have exposed themselves to international gaze, letting it all hang out, like fruits, and it ain't pretty.

* Putin (in Russian "to pute") means literally to give your pet pig a poke.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 28 July 2014 4:49:07 PM
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I couldn't imagine an article by Bruce Haigh that would simply comply with the blurb at the start which read, "On this issue Abbott has shown greater leadership skills than Barack Obama and other leaders whose nationals were affected by the criminal tragedy."

Bruce is not like that. He's into Abbott hatred, so he proceeds to project a fantasy that this humanitarian disaster will make Abbott more, well ... humanitarian. That Liberals (or conservatives) are desperately slow learners, probably after having their brains washed of all compassion and sense at some Gestapo-like HQ that conservatives are held in before being inflicted on the world.

No, Bruce. He was compassionate from the start. And he will be when he dies. He believes it. But he sees the best way to be compassionate is to be less inclined to give the free-loaders a free ride. Bruce sees it differently and would prefer we all send our taxes to Canberra so they can be spent on his pet projects to demonstrate his (superior) compassion.

Lefties! Yuk!
Posted by Captain Col, Monday, 28 July 2014 5:12:34 PM
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Bruce, I generally find myself in sympathy with the positions you take, but in this case you have made a serious misjudgment in my view about the facts of the MH17 tragedy. You seem for example, to be completely unaware of the evidence presented last Monday by two high ranking Russian Generals which has been virtually ignored by the Oz media.

That evidence calls for a reasoned response and debate. It was shown for example, that MH17 deviated from its flight path and the deviation took it over the war zone. The Ukrainians have refused to release their air traffic control data to explain why that happened.

It was further shown that the US had a spy satellite directly overheads at the time of the crash, yet they have refused to (officially) respond to the Russian request that they release the data that satellite will have shown. Instead, there have been a series of outlandish allegations, utterly without supporting evidence, and directly contrary to what is known and can be independently established.

There have also been several attempts by the Ukrainian regime to claim they have "evidence" which has quickly been shown to be utterly false. The innocent have no need to manufacture evidence to prove another's guilt.

There is much else that could be said in rebuttal of your thesis, as you, and indeed could anyone with a genuine desire to establish the truth, could quickly establish by a search of reliable sources.

I endorse what SteeleRedux, halduell and Pericles say about your approach to Ukraine, and endorse also Ojnab and Peter King's vivid exposure of Abbott's professed humanity with his stunning silence on the travesty being perpetrated upon the Palestinians by his Zionist friends.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 28 July 2014 5:59:50 PM
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Yep James O'Neill

While we await Pilger's Russian propaganda report your preference for the Kremlin's claims is all too predictable.

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 28 July 2014 6:08:39 PM
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Yes Pete. I will always prefer evidence to propaganda. But if you actually read what I said rather than rushing in with your customary smart alec remarks you would have read that I said the Russian material presented last Monday calls for a "reasoned response and debate". The Russian evidence (whether you accept it or not) is streets ahead of the unfounded allegations and manufactured "evidence" that has thus far emanated from the US and its acolytes. When you are ready to engage in a reasoned and evidence based debate process feel free to post again.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 28 July 2014 6:20:49 PM
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"The first casualty of war is truth".
I doubt there'll ever be a completely accepted truth to this now, "evidence" is all too easily fabricated these days and I wouldn't take their word from either side of this.
Perhaps if one of those actually responsible spoke up, with some sort of real evidence, then I might believe, maybe.
Until then, Occam's Razor applies, it was probably mistaken identity by the operators of the missile system, whichever side of the Russian border they came from.
Posted by G'dayBruce, Monday, 28 July 2014 7:08:37 PM
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Here you go James

This should provide you with some interim Pilger thought-food http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger

Not yet updated as the Pilg awaits his Moscow stipend.

:)

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 28 July 2014 7:38:48 PM
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Abbott waited three days before even calling Putin, launched yet another military nuanced "Operation" and recited some generic platitudes.

I saw nothing special or any unique qualities on display - he just did what any other leader would have been advised to do.

At best he didn't offend anybody - unlike his statements about excusing the Japanese for WW2 atrocities.
Posted by wobbles, Monday, 28 July 2014 10:34:19 PM
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Pericles,

Sorry to disappoint you, but on this I agree almost 100% with you. [As to who “pulled the trigger” on the BUK in the hands of the rebels, if for whatever reasons I decide to donate a limousine to an old lady who cannot drive I better include a chauffeur otherwise it is useless to her. If he (or whom he had instructed) is clumsy enough to ram the car into a crowd of innocent bystanders, my fault lies “only” in not having sufficiently checked the driving skills of the chauffeur, but it is unfair to accuse me of criminal intentions.]
Posted by George, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 12:32:00 AM
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This is the English version of what Putin said on TV after the disaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dWsXSTUe2M):

“In response to the terrible tragedy that took place over Donetsk, I want to reiterate Russia’s position with regard to the current situation in Ukraine.

We have called repeatedly on all parties to the conflict to stop the bloodshed immediately and begin negotiations. I believe that if military operations had not resumed in eastern Ukraine on June 28, this tragedy probably could have been avoided.

At the same time, no one should and no one has the right to use this tragedy to pursue their own political goals. Rather than dividing us, tragedies of this sort should bring people together. All those who are responsible for the situation in the region must take greater responsibility before their own peoples and before the peoples of the countries whose citizens were killed in this disaster.  

Everything possible must be done to ensure that international experts can work in safety at the crash site. Representatives from the Donbass region, Donetsk, Ukraine’s Emergency Situations Ministry, and Malaysian experts are already working at the site, but this is not enough. 

It is essential that a full-fledged group of experts under ICAO aegis, an appropriate international commission set up for the task, be able to work at the crash site. We must do everything possible to ensure their complete and guaranteed safety and provide them with the humanitarian corridors they need for their work. 

For its part, Russia will do everything within its power to move the conflict in eastern Ukraine from the military phase we see today to the negotiating phase, with the parties using peaceful and diplomatic means alone.”

The appeal was addressed to both fighting sides, but in fact it was only Kiev who could “stop the bloodshed immediately and begin negotiations” so that independent investigations could take place, since at that time the rebels were defending only their usurped positions.
Posted by George, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 12:41:39 AM
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Disappointed, George?

>>Pericles, Sorry to disappoint you, but on this I agree almost 100% with you.<<

I'm elated. I have always admired your steady wisdom on this forum.

There is a very real chance, of course, that Putin was reading from a script provided to him by his PR agency. But that does not excuse Abbott's clumsy braggadocio, or his ham-fisted attempts to look statesmanlike.

Sadly, the Murdoch press in particular has chosen to talk up his efforts, which has already caused an upward spike in his home-town popularity. This speaks more to the eternal gullibility of the Australian-in-the-street, whose knowledge of Collingwood's back-pocket players exceeds that of international affairs by a couple of orders of magnitude.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 12:12:57 PM
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Rubbish Peracles, Abbott has been quite restrained in public to avoid
rubbing Putin's nose in it, but I imagine it might have been much more
direct face to face so to speak.
>Abbott's clumsy braggadocio,
Really, I think your politics is driving your keyboard.

I feel pretty sure Putin was not aware for quite some time as to what actually happened.

The separatists are rather annoyed at Putin for not jumping in boots and all to help them.
This probably why they are still being a little obstructionist.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 2:00:39 PM
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I'm with you there, Bazz

>>I feel pretty sure Putin was not aware for quite some time as to what actually happened.<<

But that's exactly why Abbott should have followed every other national leader, and refrained from wading in, boots and all, with an accusation for which he had absolutely no proof.

That is the action of a diplomatic neophyte, and not, as we have been told time and time again, the behaviour of a seasoned statesman.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 2:30:27 PM
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Australian in the Street Pericles I could not agree more with you, not only on this post but others as well, one person I spoke to recently did not seem to understand that the bodies from MH17 would be in pieces, he took a lot of convincing.
OLO does have people thinking whether one agrees or not, rather as you say having a pie and chips for the match between the Crows and Collinswood, that is as far as their brain extends to
Abbott has been grandstanding over this calamity unfortunately for his own benefit, not mentioning Israel and the Gaza situation at all. The Murdoch press is a one eyed monster.
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 2:35:46 PM
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Now you both are making wild criticisms about how Abbot approached
Putin without having the slightest idea what was said.
All that is publically known that Putin said all the right things.

I think we can all agree that Abbott put it to Putin that a Russian
rocket launcher shot the plane down.
Putin would have known that Abbott would have had US satellite information.
There is no reason to believe that Abbott was other than firm and polite.

Everything else is political bias.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 10:44:39 PM
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"I think we can all agree that Abbott put it to Putin that a Russian
rocket launcher shot the plane down."

Actually Bazz, we don't all agree. The Russians have released a transcript of that telephone call and there is no mention by either side of responsibility for the shooting down of the plane. Putin repeated his argument that there should be an independent inquiry and that the perpetrators should be brought to account. Abbott agreed. This is presumably what Abbott was referring to when he said that Mr Putin "said all the right things".

There is a distinction between Abbott's public posturing for domestic political consumption and the reality of diplomatic discussions.

Since that telephone conversation there have been several developments, none of which support the initial Abbott response. It may be one reason why Abbott has toned down his earlier rhetoric.

I am still waiting for a reasoned and rational response to the satellite, radar and electronic data released by the Russians Monday a week ago. We know that the Americans had a spy satellite overhead at the time, yet they have refused to release the data from that satellite. There have been unofficial leaks (see Robert Parry's Consortium News) that again do not support the Abbott position.

Instead of hard data there have been manifestly absurd fresh claims, no doubt to distract from the real issues. The latest of these is a Twitter claim by the US ambassador of Russian mortar fire into Ukraine. This has been debunked by, inter alia, the OSCE, and drawn widespread ridicule from even the Americans.

For the broader geopolitical perspective on what is happening I suggest readers go to Paul Craig Roberts' website and Pepe Escobar on Asia times online. Perspectives manifestly lacking from our lickspittle Australian media.
Posted by James O'Neill, Wednesday, 30 July 2014 10:03:16 AM
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