Israel is a liar.

There are no houses on Gaza beaches where Israel targetted and killed Palestinian children. All the world saw that brutality and that war crime. Thay deliberately target innocent kids and train all their own kids to kill their neighbours. Then they proclaim to the world how they are liberal democrats. What utter crap. They are no better than the murderous outfits run by Hitler, Stalin and Mao all rolled into one. Their propagandists will only be successful while focus is continued to be taken off their war crimes and focused on the Palestinians.

What utter crap. Poor Palestinians. There are NO innocent Civilians in an Islamic environment. Anyone can pick up a weapon & kill anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim. If they get killed in return someone removes the weapon then claims that they were an innocent civilian.

In any fighting in the Middle East, they are all civilian's. They are NOT a recognized Legitimate Army. So when a Legitimate Army takes them on, be they Israeli, Syrian, American or Iraqis, the cry is, "They are killing civilians." Of course they are. Armed Civilian Militia Mobs hell bent of killing Soldiers & civilians who don't agree with them.

Yes, occasionally innocent people do get accidentally killed by the "Good Guys," but they are NOT deliberately targeted, as do the "Bad Guys," such as HAMAS, ISIL & the Taliban.

The reason women & children get caught up in the firefights & bombing is that Muslim men won't send their women & children away. If the husband is not with his wife or daughters then they become targets for Rape by other Muslims (unaccompanied, you see.) The the husband would have to kill his wife & daughters for bringing shame on the family.

As for the propaganda, Unfortunately it's true, as been shown by the raid into Gaza. Where are the Weapons stored, 10 Rockets in a school Gym others in Home of innocent Gazan Civilians. Where do the tunnels start, as shown, in Schools, Hospitals & Government buildings.

Some 1780 rockets have been fired by HAMAS since this started this time. If only one third of those were imported. At $80 - 100000 a piece, that's $53.4 Million, Cost to manufacture the home made rockets at, say $500 each, About $6 million. Every wonder what Hamas does with it's Aid money? Does it spend it looking after the Muslims in Gaza or on Weapons?

So Julian I'm a nutter, Neve & Nicola. Or is that Naïve? Your article his not worth wiping my backside with.

And if they are? Who then should be held to account or final judgement, for the impossible to avoid, civilian casualties?
It would be better, if the Israelis just stood still or allowed themselves to be herded like dumb animals, so they could be more easily killed or eliminated, in a modern day, final solution.
And once the last remaining million or so Jews Are eliminated, who should be next?
I know, their even more troublesome genetic cousins, who also have claims to having descended from Jacob!?
Thank heavens for Edmonton, and the trillions of barrels of recently discovered oil reserves there.
We Australians might have a similarly large repository to our immediate north, but we don't intend to even look, let alone develop what lays beneath the waves; given just how much we enjoy paying through the nose for foreign fuel!
The very thing that inspires, and indeed, pays for most of the Middle East conflict/weaponry and or, disharmony.
Rhrosty.

Since de-occupying Gaza, leaving intact schools, hospitals, hot houses and all the modern infrastructure of a modern city, Isreal has receive over 20 000 rockets.

Apologists for the 'Poor, innocent' Gazan Arabs are truly delusional.

Jayb
It is indee fortunate you don'need paper for your bottom...
Your s... falls from your mouth.

Some 1780 rockets have been fired by HAMAS since this started this time. An estimated 20000 since the last conflict. If only one third of those were imported. At about $100000 a piece, that's about $700 Million, Cost to manufacture the home made rockets at, say $500 each, being charitable here, About $6.5 million.

That's about $706.5 million of your Aid money in Rockets. Every wonder what Hamas does with it's Aid money? Does it spend it looking after the Muslims in Gaza or on Weapons? Then the Money for buying small arms & ammunitions.

Where did the money come from to build these tunnels. They wouldn't be cheap even with free labour.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28403116

Here is Israel's Daily Butcher's Bill for the rape of Gaza:

Palestinians murdered: 572*

Israeli civilians murdered: 2

Israeli soldiers killed: 27

Israeli Army's Kill ratio: 20 to 1.

* The UN estimates 78% of Palestinian dead are civilian non-combatants.

For Daily Slaughter data see right-hand side-bar of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Protective_Edge
--

A special mention for the the Israeli Army's SS^ Netanyahu Division

and Israel's Merkava' factory.

^ SS = senseless slaughter
' Merkava, of course, means the act of crushing a Palestinian 4 year old with a heavy tank in Hebrew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava

Numbers don't count, unless one were to consider this terror as some sort of game.
She simple fact is, rockets are being launched at them daily, so they only have two choices, react militarily or give in in some way, allow the Palestinians to dictate to them. Then what, more rockets, more demands?
Obviously that's impossible for them, so in they go, they have no choice's about the battlefield or the rules of combat, the Palestinians are dictating those already by their own actions.
The poor victimised Palestinian civilians also have choices.
They can choose to stop the rockets, those are their buildings and homes, or they can permit them to continue, then they get to choose between packing up their children and getting out from under, or they can stay put and cop whatever comes.
You can't lay the blame for their presence on the Israeli's, they'd be only too happy to assist getting those civilians out of the way too!
A clear shot at their enemies? With their gear?
You can bet your sweet bippy they'd LOVE to help!

Plantegenet: The UN estimates 78% of Palestinian dead are civilian non-combatants.

There are no non-combatants in this type of war. There is no need for the women & children to be killed. All they have to do is move away from the area like they were told to do. If they didn't, or worse were not allowed to by their Combatant husbands, then that becomes their fault.

Plantagenet: Israeli Army's Kill ratio: 20 to 1.

A great Ratio, better than any Commander could hope for.

Plantagenet: Merkava, of course, means the act of crushing a Palestinian 4 year old with a heavy tank in Hebrew.

I remember seeing a similar photo of Palestinians destroying a 4 year olds child arm, on purpose, by running over his arm with a truck. But it seemed that that was acceptable as it was done by Palestinians.

Merkava means "Chariot."

Go the Isreali's Yeahhhhh.....

@Jayb

Yes Merkava does mean "Chariot."

Just goes to show you can read.

--
G'dayBruce

Your views seem to be an Israeli death is a tragedy while 100 Palestinians being murdered is a "bean counting" bore.

Or are you actually fair-minded, deep down?

Cheers

Pete

I bet the Isreali's aren't even worried about the killing being Hal'al. Bar $teds. I wonder if the Isreali's do Mulesing?, maybe that'd be a great idea. They should try that.

I suppose we'll have PETA getting into the act soon too. ;-)

How come no one is demonstrating about the 20000 rockets HAMAS has sent over into Israel? Is that fine, can they do that without any remonstration at all? Strange that.

Jayb

Best you wipe your chin each time you post.

imajulianutter,

Is the "ima" in your name short for imature?

Jayb
It is indee fortunate you don'need paper for your bottom...
Your s... falls from your mouth.
imajulianutter,
You may not need paper soon when you're made to eat your words ! Do you honestly believe Israelis would fire a single shot if the Palestinians didn't either ?
They will never let up, only if they become history will they stop..

"Your views seem to be an Israeli death is a tragedy while 100 Palestinians being murdered is a "bean counting" bore."
Odd that, you speak of the deaths of Israeli's so casually, but the Palestinians were "murdered" ?
Bit of a give-away there.
What of those three Israeli teens whose fate kicked all this off again, were they just meaningless deaths to be ignored, or were they innocent victims of murder, by fanatic Palestinians?
I disagree that the Palestinian civilian casualties are murdered anyway, except in the general sense that all victims of war are murdered.
All these deaths are to be deplored, but only the Palestinians can stop it, that call is theirs alone.
Just what ELSE can the Israeli's actually DO that will stop the Palestinian bombardment and sneak attacks?

if Israel was to withdraw then its enemies would wipe it out. If the Palestinians stopped bombing their would be peace. Simple solution but terrorist would rather use kids as shields.

There are certain facts the authors of this article choose to ignore.

Hamas DOES make use of civilians as shields, as shown by the latest UNRWA discovery of rocket in a Gaza school. Plenty of other evidence surfaced since the conflict started where Hamas leaders call on civilians to shield targets from Israeli strikes, or prohibit them from heeding IDF warning and leave their homes for fear that they will be treated as collaborators. At the same time Hamas continue firing rockets targeting Israeli civilian population centres . These are not Israeli propaganda posters. It's not someone's opinion. These are facts, as told by Hamas themselves. "accusing the enemy of using human shields"? Of course they are using human shields. They're telling us so in countless interviews. What more evidence do you need?
They have no regard for Palestinian citizens, let alone Israelis. They treat the civilian casualties simply as a strategy for winning public opinion, with some success as is evident by this article.

Yes, they don't have bomb shelters. But if Hamas used some of the building material imported into Gaza for building shelters, as Israel does, the Palestinian civilians would now be safely out of harm’s way. Of course we know that much of it is used for building countless tunnels for smuggling goods and sending terror missions into Israel.

Yes, Israel uses cutting edge weapons allowing it to target more accurately instead of the makeshift rockets which are nearly impossible to aim. So? Would you prefer Israel to send the same makeshift rockets into Gaza, randomly hitting targets at 100 times the casualty rate? Can you imagine how many Palestinian lives would have been lost had Israel used the same type and number of rockets that Hamas fires into Israel?

They do not have an Iron Dome. But guess what? If they stopped firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel they wouldn't need it. Maybe they could even divert some of the funds currently spent on rockets and other terror infrastructure onto other projects that might benefit the Palestinians instead of causing them endless anguish.

There factors that are not in doubt are:

That the conflict was triggered by a relentless barrage of rockets fired into Israel,
That Hamas has no interest in stopping the conflict, as shown by its ignoring of the Egyptian called cease fire,
That Israel has the right and duty to protect its citizens by responding to stop the rockets,
That Hamas has stored and fired most of its rockets from civilian areas, which is a war crime,
That the geneva convention considers military assets within civilian areas legitimate targets.

It is not surprising that Hamas has generated little sympathy from governments around the world given that the reality is that none of this conflict needed to occur and that consequences of Hamas's actions were entirely predictable.

Jayb

is your whole digestive system now clogged up?

Is Mise

immature is spelt with a double m. You need to brush up on your English else your supervisor might reprimand you.
See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future.

Individual

Israel one day might not be able to fire a shot at all.
What then?
See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future.

G'dayBruce,

Those three Israel teens were not murdered by anyone Hamas supported and certainly not by any Gazans.
Why have you swallowed holas bolas the Israeli propaganda?
There is a much longer term view that is gaining great traction in Israel.
See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future.


Runner

When the tables are turned? What will you say? The same?
See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future.

AVW

So you believe it ok for Israel to use force and means greater and more extensive than that used against it?
See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future

imajulianutter
Since you automatically assume that any action by Israel is a crime, and buy into any conspiracy theory that supports your outlook, there seems little prospect of real discussion..There are none so blind etc.

ima':See below. And don't come grizzling to me in future.

See what below?
-I wasn't grizzling to you, merely pointing out the facts of the case, hubris much?

g'day bruce

by avoiding and not even acknowledging it you show you condone and support the illegal blockade of Gaza.

You keep on with that attitude brucey, it fits you.

It is acknowledged by all except Israel and it's lackeys like you it the source of the Hamas attacks.

In 1940 the Allieds went into North Africa to sort out Egypt, Syria & Palestine. Who needs more proof of the insane stupidity there.

imajulianutter

Its acknowledged by all except Hamas and Lackeys like you that the endless barrage of missiles from Gaza is the source of the Israeli attack.

PS the blockade of Hamas's bombers is not illegal.

Without the blockade just how many Rockets would HAMAS have to blast Israel with, 100 times what they have now? I support the blockade. I support the Israeli's going systematically from house to house to search for Illegal Arms, then throwing every HAMAS out of Gaza & into Syria/Iraq, no matter how long they've lived there. The ones that are responsible for firing rockets & Mortars into Israel must be tried for War Crimes. I'd also ring Gaza with sensors to detect digging, then cave the tunnels in.

By the way, I drop the "Julia" bit in you name, that would make it more appropriate.

imajulianutter,

You noticed the incorrect spelling of "Immature"; that gets you one plus point; keep up the good work, although it's a long way up to Zero.

p.s. I have "Spellcheck" too!

Is Mise

You don't know how to use your spellcheck. I deliberately misspelt another word to have a little giggle at your incompetence.

See below

Israel cannot win in Gaza. They might kill a few Palestinians and destroy a few buildings but at what cost?

The Palestinians have again won the propaganda war.

Israel looks criminal and the Palestinians heroic.(The west has made a distinction between HAMAS and Palestinians.)

Hamas has caused huge fear in Israel with the deaths of invincible IDF soldiers, taking one POW whose body will be traded for Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, disruption to civilian life and the closing of Tel Aviv airport.

I'd say Israel killing 600 civilians, to the Palestinians and the wider world doesn't rate, given Israel's overwhelming superiority in weapons and funding. The flea is causing as much damage as a tsetse fly.

Time is the Palestinians ally and Israel's enemy.

Longer term the Palestinians will destroy Israel. Sheer weight of numbers through higher birth rates and the lack of sources for new Israeli immigration are massive elements and outside of Israel's control.

The Israeli expansionism is now recognised throughout the west. While western governments still support the Israelis, their populations are starting to question Israel's motives. That will increase. Governments will eventually respond to the peoples.

Israel has forgotten the lessons of history and the lessons it was taught in Lebanon and the other incursions into Gaza .

Israel forgets the nastiness it inflicts on Palestinians, when the boot is on the other foot, as times change as they always have, the Jews of Israel will be subjected to another progrom.

Will I then cheer, like the Israeli's sitting on plastic chairs watching the bombarding of Gaza?

No, I'll be sad because Israel could have treated the Palestinians with respect and created a peaceful co-existence where HAMAS and the PLO terrorists would never have gained any sort of support.

I won't be rushing to help in the plight of the Israelis either because they have bought their own destruction upon themselves (Sound familiar?)by their own short-sighted stupidity.

Imajulianutter,

"So you believe it ok for Israel to use force and means greater and more extensive than that used against it?"

Of course, absolutely. I cannot put it in stronger terms. It is utter stupidity to expect any nation that is attacked by an external force to dumb-down its defences and attack capabilities to match that of the enemy. Do you think this is a monopoly game where the two contestants must be matched at the start? Does it say so anywhere in the rules of warfare?

If Hamas does not wish to face a superior enemy, why pick a fight in the first place?

Ever heard of the idea of disproportinate forve?

No of course you haven't.

Do you acknowledge a blockade as an act of war?

No of course you don't.

Why don't you try thinking for yourself and reading a bit more broadly. You would then understand why we westerners are starting to really question Israeli actions.

The people of the world are tiring of Hamas, and it is clear that the vast majority of the world don't think of them as victims.

They have alienated Egypt, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan who have each given only a muted and token support. The western world has universally acknowledged Israel's right of defense and response.

If anyone thinks Hamas has won the propaganda they are seriously delusional.

Imajulianutter,

Disproportionate force? In relation to the systematic destruction of the Hamas terror infrastructure and arsenal of rockets? No, sorry. Hamas have been firing these rockets at civilians for many years now and must be stopped. Are you aware that civilians must not be targeted in armed conflicts, even if the perpetrators are Hamas that you seem to revere so much? Well they have been doing exactly that, repeatedly. Tens of thousands of rockets. Yet people like yourself are happy to allow these crimes committed by Hamas to continue, only to wake up from your indifference and scream blue murder when Israel finally decides to respond. Frankly I’m amazed that the Israelis put up with this for so many years.

You also raise the issue of the blockade, conveniently trying to manipulate the order of events to suit your narrative. Hamas violently took over control of the Gaza Strip, and made no secret of its mission to eliminate Israel. The blockade came as the results of these events, not the other way around. Did you expect anything different?

"You don't know how to use your spellcheck. I deliberately misspelt another word to have a little giggle at your incompetence."

Giggle away then.

Spellcheck is automatic; and I don't make a practice of correcting peoples spelling/grammar, haven't the time!

You blokes are obviously not talking to the people in the broader Australian community.

It is unusual for Australians to discuss anything remotely decisive in everyday conversation yet I have seen ordinary Australians discuss this topic ahead of the killing of Australians on jetliners ... despite the emphasis on the latter in Australian mainstream media.

To be outspoken in forums like this on line opinion is also rare because of the oprium associated with the all too common slur anti-semitic.

Since it is acknowledged widely I am not and never have been anti-semitic I have no such fear. And besides the intolerance exhibited by the pro Atrocity brigade in here would necessarily preclude any such hypocritical ascussation.

IJN,

Please don't confuse what your circle of like minded friends consider important as representative of the general public.

Shadow priest

My like minded friends are people I see in coffee shops, on neighbouring yachts, at child care centres, writing groups and at restaurants, clubs and pubs and they are of mostly middle or blue collar classes. Note none have a high regsrd for any religion snd are coming to realise the base problem in all mid east violence is the stupidity of the ancient religious beliefs.

IJN,

Then we have something in common as I am an atheist with no regard for religion. Most of the people I deal with are professionals, and while all hate the loss of life in Gaza, they largely or equally lay the blame squarely at the feet of Hamas.

Here is a child's answer to "human shielding"

“The Little Prince And The Air Force Pilot”
http://www.madamasr.com/content/poem-little-prince-and-air-force-pilot

Yes the argument is somewhat childish.

yutsie: If however you are happy just being who you are.

Guess that's me. I'm happy & I know it. I clap my hands.

A second lot of 20 Rockets found in a UN School.

First lot went missing.

http://news.yahoo.com/rockets-found-un-gaza-school-went-missing-010208751.html

Some interesting Video's. Yes I know it's put out by Israel but what you see is what you get.

What really happens in Gaza.
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/this-is-what-real-border-control-looks-like?omhide=true&utm/

No such thing as Palestinian
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/this-hamas-leader-is-crying-you-dont-want-to-miss-why

Shadow
are you sure you are dead right.

Jayb,
What an uncanny familarity with ALP & LNP. Is it any wonder Sydney became a middle eastern enclave under Labor ? Imagine every single vote goes to them. The problems have automatically followed but that's of no concern to our academic labor supporting experts. They're way too ignorant for even a single ounce of foresight.