I admit I have only read around half of this article and had to stop, due to the complete bias and distortion of the writer.

A few points

"lining up in the hot sun..." and what does the average person on Manus island have to do, probably exactly the same

" the state of the toilet facilities.." really, when my toilet at home is dirty I can complain too, or I can CLEAN it.

I noted this morning that the accused who STABBED TO DEATH a shopper in a Sydney shopping centre just a few days ago came here by boat. Thanks to people like the write of this article who cannot understand that these people are bringing to this country the very conditions they are trying to escape.

When will people like the write of this article start caring for ordinary Australians who are also doing it very tough, and there are thousands of them.

I apologise for the rushed nature of this response, however the kind of bias and deception that people such as this writer displays makes me very angry.

<<Recently the Tamil Refugee Council has claimed at least 11 people handed over to the Sri Lankan navy have been tortured>>

Citing the Tamil Refugee Council on issues like this is like citing the Tobacco Marketing Corp about the health benefits of cigarettes.

How about we start a new system for appraising refugees that excludes any lawyers. It would be cheaper and a lot quicker. We could have fellow Australians questioning the new chum and see what they think of them for a start.
This woman has made a career out of trying to guilt her fellow Australians. Judy Judy Judy it will not wash! We don't believe these people are anything other than a drain on the rest of us and a complete waste of our time.
Another case of people who destroyed their own country and will almost certainly end up trying to do the same here.

Australia does and should assist asylum seekers. But not those wanting a "better life". Australia cannot solve the world refugees problem - but what it can do is to triage and assist the most vulnerable, those that are most in danger, according to our capacity. Those arriving by boat ARE jumping the queue - there may be others in more desperate need of resettlement and those arriving by boat are preventing these people from getting the assistance they most desperately need.

I have to agree with the others. Those who come here by boat are basically jumping the queue. If they come by boat and are admitted they are displacing someone, equally if not more desperate, in a refugee camp. They do not alter the refugee quotas if more people come by boat. The number accepted are still the same. If they author wants more refugees in Australia she should agitate to change the quotas, not campaign for queue jumpers.

No, it is hard to believe, and as others have noted, not too dissimilar from sending Jews back to their Nazi persecutors?
I mean and for heavens sake, there were women and children on board!
Other choices included, sending them (back) to India, which has a very large very sympathetic Tamil population, or send them to Manus or Nauru, for much more thorough, space age investigation?
Only proven war criminals, or just hardened criminals ought to be returned for a taste of so called, Shri Lanken justice!
Where it seems, includes disappearing some people, many of who are never seen again!?
In any event, none of those more humane options, need ever include resettlement in Australia!
In conclusion, our strong action is likely to send a chill through virtually all refugees, who may only venture here, as their very last or only resort!
This tough medicine ought to be accompanied by a serious lift in genuine properly documented refugee settlement, always providing, they learn English before applying; accept space age lie detection assisted interviews; and go to those locations, where we actually want/need more able bodied people!
Rhrosty.

Why does this woman love the UN more than Oz. Is there still a personal financial reason for this attitude of hers?

I think we should do for refugees exactly what the UN does, & what most other countries in the regions they come from do.

Put them in a refugee camp, surrounded by barb wire, & never ever let them, or their progeny, out into our country. As this is the UN way, Judy should approve surely?

Hang about, isn't that just what we are doing since we got rid of the despicable Rudd/Gillard vote buyers? So what the hell is she bitching about?

Hasbeen,

So thrilled to hear you're softening as the years go by.

Your suggestion is so much more humanitarian than the one you put forth on this forum a few years back...which was to lock asylum seekers in a room - and give them a knife.

(Remember that?...no doubt, you probably consider it your proudest moment)

Watched a program last night with 12 year-old son on Jews being transported to Treblinka.

That's the sort of thing our armed forces fought to stop.

So, in light of our proud history of stopping human right's abuses, what do I tell my 12 year-old about our govt floating men, women and small children out to the high seas and holding them prisoner on a boat?

And what do I tell him now we're delivering fleeing people back into the hands of their persecutors after a perfunctory 4 questions?

Tell him Poirot, that our government is trying to do their best to stop his kids becoming a refugee in their own country.

That is what your bleeding heart foolish mates & the greens are trying their best to do.

Don't bother to thank us who are fighting the likes of you for your own good, we wouldn't believe it.

This discussion is now redundant.
They have admitted they are economic migrants and not asylum seekers.
They broke Sri Lanken law by leaving through other than a port of
departure so may pay the penalty for that.
Their biggest complaint was the food was past its best before date !

It will be interesting to see how many of the 153 on the other boat
admit to being economic migrants.
We just seem to be letting people who have made a mess of their own
country come here and make a mess of ours.

Poirot,

What will you tell the shoppers at the Parramatta shopping Mall that had to witness the brutal stabbing murder of another shopper by a boat person? What will you tell the Australian children that witnessed that? What will you tell the parents of the children that have constant nightmares for the next few years? What will you tell the many patients that develop PTSD after witnessing such an incident?
Will you apologise to all of these people who's lives are now permanently affected by your encouragement of the importation of violent people?
You are partly responsible for this.

“LABOR’S last foreign minister, Bob Carr, has ridiculed refugee advocates’ “urban mythology” about endemic persecution of Tamils in Sri Lanka, saying the previous government “couldn’t find a single case” of returned asylum-seekers being abused by authorities.”

[As reported on The Australian web site]

So when do we stop?
When there is standing room only or, perhaps, just prior.

Judging by this thread it looks like Abbott's immigration policies have overwhelming community support.

Ozzie
The Parramatta stabbing was a domestic dispute between a man and his partner’s former husband. It was tragic and appalling, but family-related violence of this type can occur in any ethic group. Unless you can show that boat people are more likely than the rest of us to engage in murderous love-triangles, the perpetrator’s refugee status is irrelevant.

My heart goes out to anyone who is traumatised by witnessing the Parramatta incident, especially children. But the number of children being traumatised by brutal indefinite detention at Australia’s instigation is far larger, and the trauma they suffer far greater and more prolonged.

Our treatment of asylum seekers is a calculated attempt to deter arrivals by inflicting dreadful conditions on the innocent, including children. Like the author, I can’t believe Australia is doing this. It is a far cry from the fair, compassionate and rational Australia of a few years ago. The race to the bottom was instigated with Keating’s introduction of mandatory detention, escalated by Howard, redoubled by Rudd/Gillard and is now reaching new lows under Abbott.

Burnside’s proposed alternative seems cheaper, fairer, and more rational.

Scratch and Curmudgeon
What queue? There is absolutely no means for a persecuted Sri Lankan Tamil to gain access to Australia through its refugee program. Nor is there any necessary connection between Australia’s formal refugee intake and its acceptance of boat people

The boat people intake has been mostly moslem as are the vast majority
of Iranians, so the possibility arises that the Parramatta killing may
have been an honor killing.

It will be interesting to hear what the defendant has to say.

Rhian,
Yes but no member of the public has access to any figures on crime and ethnic background, it's top secret information so you can't legitimately minimise and excuse this crime in the way you've done, nor can anyone rightly claim that immigrants are forming a criminal underclass, we just don't know.

Plantagenet.
Nope, Abbott's immigration policy still has immigrants in it, when a political party closes the borders and expels every overseas born person with an criminal record or who has been on welfare for more than twelve months then I'll support them.

Rhrosty,
Again with the Nazis? Every year thousands of Australians go to Sri Lanka for their holidays, it's hardly the Generalgouvernement.
Your position is typical Racism for the sake of Anti Racism, you ennoble one group and demonise another, do you want to see why Tamils are feared and treated with suspicion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd2godP6zCE
Apart from anything else it's a stupid idea to bring battle fatigued, mentally ill people into your society on purpose as the spate of self immolations, assaults and murders among Tamil migrants shows.
Rhrosty, why is it the responsibility of White people and ONLY White people to take care of all the criminals, mental patients and trauma victims in the world?
The ship load currently being held under high court injunction embarked from Pondicherry in India, India is not a hostile country to Tamils, they have a state of their own which is peaceful, where they can practice their religion and speak their language.
There are only about two million Tamils in Sri Lanka, a tiny fraction are trying to emigrate, they could all go to Tamil Nadu if they wanted to and the Indian government would support them.
If India is going to take it's place in the "Asian Century" it can deal with it's own ethnic minorities, maybe we should be looking at helping out the reported 600,000 destitute Afrikaners or the millions of poor Whites in the U.S.A?

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but my take on this appalling episode is that a boat-load (or two?) of people from India were intercepted on the high seas (piracy ?) and because some of them (perhaps all, it doesn't really matter) had fled from Sri Lanka to India, the Australian government has handed over fifty-odd of them to Sri Lankan naval vessels.

Is that right ? If this is so, then surely they have broken all manner of international laws ? And laws about handing back 'captured' refugees to the very authorities they are fleeing from, thus breaching all manner of international refugee agreements.

IF this is what's happened, then surely charges could be laid against the Australian government at some international court, perhaps for crimes against humanity, at least ?

Why couldn't the boat or boats have been allowed to enter Australian waters around Christmas Island, from which the refugees could have been transferred to Nauru or Manus Island ? Or, of course, since they may not have been actually refugees fleeing India, the boat or boats could have been simply escorted back to India ?

What is India saying about all this ?

On the face of it, this is truly despicable.

Joe

Loudmouth, you are mixing up two incidents as one.
There are two boats one with about 50 from Sri Lanka and 40 of them
were not Tamils but Singalese.
They all admitted they were going to Australia for jobs.

The other boat was from India and has 153 on board.
It should be sent back to India.

The UNHCR is returning Tamils to Sri Lanka and has people on the ground
to help them resettle.

Thanks, Bazz - sometimes being a confused old fart has its drawbacks :)

Joe

Rhian has stated

"Unless you can show that boat people are more likely than the rest of us to engage in murderous love-triangles, the perpetrator’s refugee status is irrelevant."

Now as Jay has mentioned crime stats are not allowed to be collected by ethnic origin as there was a complaint previously from the Depart of Immigration that doing this could lead to community disharmony. However without knowing the stats we can still make a few educated calculations to see how likely what Rhian has said is to be correct or not.

According to Parliament papers "Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976" there were around 62000 boat person arrivals since 1976. Now we are told that this person who stabbed the shopper to death is a boat arrival. Thus we know that the rate of stabbing murders by boat arrivals is AT LEAST 1/62000. It could be greater but we do not know the rate so we will just go with the 1/62000 that we know.
We also know that the Australian population is approx 23 million. We could subtract 62000 from this to get 22.94 million non boat persons. Now applying the rate of 1/62000 stabbing murders gives a figure of 370 expected stabbing murders in the non boat person arrivals in the Australian population. These figures are approximate but they give a very good estimate.

Thus in order for what Rhian has said to be correct ( that is that the Boat people do not have a higher rate of stabbing by murder) he needs to demonstrate to us that there are at least 370 murders in Australia by brutal stabbing.

Another point.
Define torture please?
Police rough people up all the time in all countries, I've been tuned up by the cops on a couple of occasions, so have many people I know, a couple have required medical treatment and made formal complaints.
This is the sort of thing I've seen and experienced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTSFDgPN13k
I've been held at gunpoint, just for a laugh, clubbed with a torch, accused of making bomb threats, seen friends bashed,seen a friend kidnapped by cops then driven out in to the bush and left by the side of the road, been accused of prostitution, theft, drug dealing...I could go on at length but let's say that I was never charged and apart from one drunk and disorderly I have no record.
Being held in Police custody is also basically a bread and water situation, you get sandwiches and something to drink, or crappy takeaway food if you're lucky, it's hard to sleep, it's boring and degrading and being interrogated is a horrible experience....but it's not torture.
The people writing these articles are well off, middle class people who've led sheltered lives with no contact with Police so they think that maltreatment only happens in the third world, when I was a teenager and a young adult in country Victoria Police brutality was an everyday thing, we used to run every time we saw the divvy van coming up the road.

Poirot

'Watched a program last night with 12 year-old son on Jews being transported to Treblinka.

That's the sort of thing our armed forces fought to stop.'

Factually wrong. The Allies fought to stop the German National Socialists and the Militarist Japanese Imperial Forces from imposing their dictatorships on the free world. The also fought to rid them from the countries these forces had conquered.

The Allies where unaware of Nazi Atrocities until near the end of WWII in Europe.

Those are the facts of history, yours is a rewrite.

Poirot tell your son their is no history persecution of Tamils in India nor of Sinhalese in Sri Lanka.

Just reading the ABC news and read an interesting article on domestic violence in our multicultural communities. Seems the head of Domestic Violence Victoria stated that women from non-english speaking backgrounds are at higher risk and experience more violence. Here is what the article stated

"Fiona McCormack, the chief executive officer of Domestic Violence Victoria, agreed, saying there were not enough services for culturally and linguistically diverse women.

"Women from non-English speaking backgrounds are among the highest-risk groups and experience more violence because of those vulnerabilities," she said.

Ms McCormack also recommended a Victorian-wide early intervention plan for domestic violence in different cultural populations, to include police, the courts and support."

Now the boat people are basically 100% from non english speaking backgrounds so they would be at a higher risk than the rest of the Australian population. I believe this would prove Rhian incorrect when they stated

"Unless you can show that boat people are more likely than the rest of us to engage in murderous love-triangles, the perpetrator’s refugee status is irrelevant."

Yeah ozzie, next we will see blazing banner headlines in the press AUSTRALIAN MALES THE WORST WIFE BEATERS IN THE WESTERN WORLD. Next will come the usual crap from "feminists" claiming that this proves how misogynistic "Australian" society is.

Only last week, the newspapers cited the fact that cigarette smoking in Australia had increased significantly, which "proved" that no amount of public funds spent on anti smoking messages had done anything. The elephant in the room was that we are importing third worlders into this country who are addicted to tobacco, and even give "refugees" free cigarettes.

If we import people into this country in large numbers who do not share our values, and encourage them to maintain their ethnic and cultural uniqueness, then pretty soon we will be in the same position as Sri Lanka and every other woe begotten state now in turmoil from the curse of multiculturalism.

A good definition of "insanity" is "making the same mistake, over and over again." With so many examples of ethnic division creating serious social strife and even civil wars, one wonder why a woman like the is author is so determined to have Australia emulate self evident failure.

@Loudmouth. Joe, your first instincts were correct. The source for the claim that the occupants of the boat returned to the Sri Lankans were "economic" appears to be an official of that government. Put what weight you like on that. My view would be zero. It is in any case irrelevant. Once the Australian navy intercepted the boat it became our responsibility to treat the occupants in accordance with international law. This is what we manifestly failed to do.

With a couple of honourable exceptions the comments on this article are s series of bigoted and ignorant rants. Any issues about our breach of international law is just another opportunity for Muslim bashing. The refusal to address the real issues is itself quite telling.

As far as the second boat is concerned Julian Burnside suggested that holding the occupants incommunicado may well be piracy, as you suggested at the outset. At least the High Court now has carriage of the matter and the government's intention to breach our treaty obligations is now less likely to occur.

Ignore the red herrings. Like Rhiannon and Poirot your humanity has not been crushed.

Joe Loudmouth,

“Keep a-movin' Joe,
don't you listen to him Joe,
James’s a devil not a man
and he'll spam you any lie without falter"

Here are some inconvenient facts that James missed telling you (I wonder why?)

The first boat
-- It contained manly Sinhalese whom advocates up till now had been characterising as the oppressor class
--The one passenger who merited further investigation opted to return home when he learnt he would have to wait till his processing was finalised on Manus (so much for running for his life!)
-- A father of one of the passenger later admitted they were only looking for jobs/work [NOTE THAT ADMISION WAS FROM AN *ABC* INTERVIEW WITH THE FATHER!]

The second boat
Originated from India. which has a Tamil state which offers sanctuary and support (though apparently --judging by their 7,800+ Kms reroute-- it's not as generous as what is on offer down-under --COME ON DOWN have we got a deal for you!)

And as for this:
<< Julian Burnside suggested that holding the occupants incommunicado may well be piracy>>

It is an illustration of James’s sides gross hypocrisy.
- When the asylum scammers call for a rescue then force the crew of their rescue ship to change course and take then to an Oz territory [as they did with the Tampa and two or three other vessels since] –that’s OK!
-When they refuse to leave a rescue ship in an Indonesian port –and all the while are being served up culturally sensitive meals –till they are guaranteed passage to a short list of Western countries [ as they did with the Viking Princess –that’s OK too!

But when they get detained on a border protection vessel –whilst no doubt all the while being served up culturally sensitive meals—and delayed due to the attempts of advocates to frustrate things through court appeals- that’s piracy?

In the end all this fighting and difference of opinion really does not get us anywhere. The important thing is that we live in a democracy and we basically had an election where this topic was one of the major voting points. Australians voted, and they voted strongly to STOP these people. End of story.

Ozzie

<<Australians voted, and they voted strongly to STOP these people. End of story>>

Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie, you have got to get your head around the thinking of the advocates!

The nearest analogue to an Oz illegal immigration advocate would be the Ayatollahs Iran. They are answerable to a higer authority that trumps democracy. And only the <<bigoted and ignorant>> would challenge their faith and assumptions.

An entirely predictable response from the usual suspects. For another viewpoint, and one with which I mostly agree, read Guy Rundle's piece in today's Crikey.

Come on James, real people don't read Crikey.

One thing: was/were one or both ships on the high seas ?

If so, yes, there may be a case of piracy to answer.

If not, Julian Burnside knows better.

Joe

Joe, as far as we know both ships were in international waters. The Solicitor General admitted as much in respect of the second ship in the course of submissions in the High Court. It is less clear about the smaller ship that has been returned to the Sri Lankans because Morrison in his usual arrogant way refuses to release the details. All the available evidence points to that ship also being in international waters.

@ Hasbeen. Why don't you read the article and consider the merits of the argument or are facts inconvenient to your predetermined position?

How does it go again?
He talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk.

This is James to Hasbeen <<Why don't you read the article and consider the merits of the argument or are facts inconvenient to your predetermined position?>>

And, this James to the inconvenient facts --which destroy his preferred narrative -- presented by SPQR:
<<An entirely predictable response from the usual suspects>>
Not the slightest attempt to answer them ...but, then, are we surpised-NO!

It's interesting that these illegal immigrants say that they are coming to Australia for work when a quick check on the internet would show them that even if successful they will not be allowed to work here.
Asylum seekers use the internet, they use e-mail and mobile phones, they check Australian news services and communicate with their friends and the people smugglers of the Refugee Action Coalition and subversive Christian groups.
It makes no sense for Tamils or Sinhalese already living in the community to advise their friends and family to come here illegally rather than try to sponsor them, so either their contacts on this end are simply looking to financially exploit the new arrivals, the arrivals are fully expecting to go be employed illegally or the people arriving are illiterate and don't know how to use the internet.

What a pathetic craven people we have become.
I arrived as a 4 year old to this country back in the late 1960s. Australia was desperate for workers and had effectively bribed my family to come here with a free airfare.

In those days, there was no political correctness and us migrants routinely copped what would now be considered racial abuse. Truth is Australia was then a confident country and the racial ribbing was just that ribbing - people getting to know each other.

Now, we are a weak insipid country. We don't racially abuse others. We keep our thoughts and opinions to and from ourselves. But our actions reveal the truth, we are now worse than racists.

There is just as much need for workers in this country as there has ever been. But we have become so small minded, so inward looking and fearful of protecting what we have that we are missing opportunity after opportunity.

Yes perhaps a small number of boat people are a threat of some sort but we choose to focus on the small bad and ignore the greater good. Yes some will live on welfare but the vast majority will work and build businesses and the net result is they always add more than they cost.

We have become horrible people and our politicians reflect exactly who we are - its awful. We have never before seen a new government so negative about everything.

If we continue along this road, we ourselves will be looking to emigrate and find a better life elsewhere. The national psyche has become deranged.

YEGIBA
well said

YEBIGA, "If we continue along this road, we ourselves will be looking to emigrate and find a better life elsewhere. The national psyche has become deranged"

and,

Rhian, "YEGIBA well said"

Well, don't keep it a secret, which perfect destinations do you have in mind? What prevents you?

Onthebeach
Well family and friends is a bit difficult to just up and leave
But there are several countries in continental Europe which appeal and but for the above reasons I would jump at.

How about France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy - I can go on if you like
Some of The Scandanavians countries are very appealing but a bit too cold

A few people I know have moved to Bali and are loving it

And china offers great opportunity

Parts of South America are awesome

Your surely not suggesting Australia is by far the only option for a decent life. Australians of course keep telling themselves we are but we have long ago devolved from the lucky country to the dumb country. Not only are we now fatter then yanks, our standard of living lower, we are way dumber then even they are - so there is another option the great USA

YEBIGA,

Thank you for your frankness. I was interested to know.