Singer has attempted to justify Israel's sins by pointing to the sins of Syria and others.

Come off the grass, mate. Israel is responsible for its own failings. Syria likewise. That is and will remain the correct starting point for assessment of the policy of each country.

This article will convince nobody that Israel's Apartheid policy is justified today or that it will be successful tomorrow.

The truth is that the solution to Israel's problems with its neighbours are primarily of its own making and the solution to them will require substantial change of attitude by the ruling group... that is, unless they adopt a "final solution", and we all know where that led to 80 years ago.

This never ending saga/blood feud, is going nowhere, and when I see how so called democratic Islamic countries like Egypt dispense justice, I begin to see why!
And indeed, why we should just get the hell out of the place and leave them to their fate.
Simply put, neither we nor the rest of the world needs anything that they have, be it dates or oil!
And if they can't settle their affairs in a civil manner through negotiations?
Then pick a side and bomb the living daylights out of the other, with very selective smart bombs but particularly, those admins, that think it's okay to persecute Christians!
Be they Palestinian orthodox, or Egyptian Coptic?
Perhaps a few cruise missiles through the front doors, of the chief evil doers, be they Arab or Jew, might promote, a more positive reaction, and some long overdue, real reform and agreement?
Even Christian patience eventually, always runs out!
Rhrosty.

The West should simply carpet bomb the entire middle east and just take the oil. Let them have their 72 virgins each or whatever the prophet mohammed baby promised them.

Don't count your chooks before they're hatched Mr Foreign Spokesman. The Islamic countries have quite a lot of economic pressure to bear on the Australian economy, and could make the government crawl round the floor barking like obedient dogs. No moral or legal principle would dictate its response to the naming of the occupation of East Jerusalem but at the end of the day it'll listen to Mammon.

Hi David Singer

A well argued article. I don't agree with all of it - its more complicated - but anyway.

Don't worry about the previous comments. Comments like mass-murder by carpet bombing and disregard for the gross inhumanity of the Syrian Government doesn't become them.

Regards

Pete

@Emperor Julian,

I couldn't imagine an Australian government that's more obedient to Mammon than the current one.

You sicken me singer. What has Syrias horrors got to do with israels terror?
As if you, or israel, give the slightest damn about the people of Syria. Who are you kidding.
A pointless article that adds nothing to the debate.

Hi mikk

Sounds like you have a pathological hatred of the author.

Do you think this furthers the Israeli-Palestinian peace process?

"Do you think this furthers the Israeli-Palestinian peace process?"

What bloody peace process, Pete? Time for you to catch-up with modern history, old son!

Hi David G

The peace process (which can only be damage control because the Middle East has no tradition of reconciliation) results in far less violence than the daily mass killings in the Syrian Civil War and Iraqi Civil War.

Or is Muslims killing Muslims on a massive scale somehow OK because white-men aren't directly involved?

What I'm saying is that the Left (so called humanitarians) apply a white-brown apartheid test to anything whites do but the Left ignore browns killing browns in the Middle East and Africa (which includes Christians vs Muslims) at the rate of thousands a week.

Go figure.

Regards

Pete

Peace process hasn't ever worked and never will because it is no more than a surrender process. Only a justice process could work.

# plantaganet

You are spot on.

The propensity for Moslems to murder Moslems is simply not believable. The Sunni - Shiite divide appears totally insoluble.

Yet it is happening before our eyes and nothing is being done about it. Indeed one can argue that Western countries In the London 11 have helped it eventuate in Syria and Iraq.

Moslems in the form of the PLO , Hamas and a myriad of other terrorist groups have indicated they are capable of murdering Jews - and intend to do so - in the same way given the opportunity.

The senseless slaughter of three Israeli teenagers is a stark reminder of what awaits the Jews - not only innocent Moslems caught up in this carnage - if these people are not eliminated.

Whilst the PLO is feted at the UN and Hamas is funded by the West any chance of eradicating this culture of murder and mayhem is not going to occur.

Egged on by Jew haters the world over and an adulating audience at the UN spewing out a cacophony of invective against Israel in condemnatory resolutions after resolution with scarcely a concern for what is happening with its immediate neighbours - the slaughter is set to continue.

For what? Supposedly a second Arab State in former Palestine - in addition to Jordan - which was rejected after being offered in 1937, 1947, could have been created by the stroke of an Arab League pen at any time between 1948-1967 when not one Jew lived in the area, or as offered by Israel in 2000/1 and 2008.

I am afraid the PLO and Hamas have missed the last bus running on the current timetable - which needs to be jettisoned after 20 years of ever being able to reach its destination.

A new timetable needs to be introduced - direct negotiations between Israel and Jordan - if another humanitarian disaster like those in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt , Nigeria, Yemen or Sudan is to be avoided.

How did the occupied territories become the occupied territories?

Because 3 or 4 of the Arab states including Egypt if memory serves me right
raced over and attacked Israel in a war they thought they could win, to annihilate
the Jews.

The Jews who have compulsory military training for all their citizens including
the women, beat them easily and occupied the now so called occupied territories.
Probably in the beginning, more as a military buffer zone to keep the Arabs away
from Israel. Because the Arabs have never stopped lobbing rockets at Israel
and trying to dig tunnels under Gaza and the West Bank to sneak into Israel
and blow up school buses and other suicide bomber attacks.

I suspect also that when the Arabs say occupied territories, they are referring
to the whole territory of Israel as being occupied on a subconscious level but
being politically aware of what they can acceptably say, let the world believe they are referring only to the area occupied in the 6day war.
Getting that back is only the beginning of what they would do if they had the power to do so.

#Cherful

You ask:

"How did the occupied territories become the occupied territories?"

Actually that happened in 1948 when six Arab armies invaded Palestine to wipe out the fledgling State of Israel declared just one day before.

There was no compulsory military training then - a large number of the Jewish residents only recently having having been released from the Nazi concentration camps.

Jordan ended up occupying the West Bank and East Jerusalem - driving out all the Jews living there in what was their ancient and biblical and historical homeland and part of the land in which the Jewish National Home was to be legally reconstituted under the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine and the United Nations Charter,

That Jordanian 19 years long occupation was never recognised as being legal except by Great Britain and Pakistan.

Jews only returned there after the defeat of Jordan by Israel in the 1967 Six Day War,

The West Bank is one of the few areas in the World where sovereignty remains unresolved.

Attempts to do so with the PLO over the last 20 years have proved a waste of time.

Jordan needs to come back to the negotiating table with Israel to see if they can do better than the PLO.

Given Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty in 1994 which has withstood the test of time - the prospects are considerably brighter.

Surely drawing a new border between Israel and Jordan to divide up this relatively small piece of land - that would fit into Tasmania twelve times - is not beyond the ability of both countries.

Two countries at peace with each other makes a huge difference to the negotiating dynamics as compared to one country - Israel - dealing with a non-country - the PLO - that wants to wipe the other off the map.

Going back to the 1967 status quo as far as is now possible has always been the only solution capable of possibly ending the Jewish-Arab conflict.

The only two state solution that can possibly work is that between Israel and Jordan.

David Singer

Thank you for your information regarding Jordan and Israel
I went and read some of the history of the two.

I don't think the media does it's homework and presents enough
background insights into some of these world conflicts.

However, regardless of history, when you say it is a small area fitting only 12times into Tasmania, that probably sums up the reason for the hostility over the land.
That being, the lack of enough land or resources for the evergrowing populations in both camp
which can only get worse as time goes by.

It seems unlikely that the two sides could every unite by
assimilating the two ethnic bloodlines given the divisions between
them, so they are destined to remain two tribes in an ever more deadly conflict over survival space.

Can't see an answer to it. Unless they build evermore highrises and
make sure there are enough survival resources for all of the people on
both sides. Treaties don't count for diddly-squat when people get hungry and desperate.

both camps (typo, sorry)

Syria and the Middle East seem mysterious because mainstream press and publishing mislead us. For anyone who really wants to understand where the Syrians are at, watch this video taken by the UN, but also buried by their UN newscast manager. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZnFQd4wBXnk

I'm referring to the video above. Incredible report! Starts out a little slow, with a Syrian diplomat introducing English speakers from the US who went to observe the Syrian elections. When these observers start talking it is most interesting, most edifying. They are from peace groups and Syrian-US NGOs. Their observations are absolutely fascinating and confirm how utterly dishonest and dangerous the NATO reporting and actions on Syria are. Apparently this film, which was more important than any news I have seen on mainstream press, was broadcast for only 5 minutes by the UN Newscast. It goes on for nearly an hour - all of it rivetting for anyone interested in seeing democracy in action and real reporting. The Syrian diplomat also makes a contribution which, at around the 27 minute mark, talks about Aid from Australia and Luxembourg. Apparently he asked for wheelchairs and some ambulances for people injured in the war in Syria. He waited a year, listening to Australian foreign aid people and others from other nations make tear-jerking speeches about the tragedy in Syria, but he never got ANY wheelchairs, let alone ambulances from pathetic, hypocritical official Australia.

Consider also looking at Australians for Reconciliation in Syria and candobetter.net's pages on Syria. http://candobetter.net/?q=syria which include an analysis of Hilary Clinton's chapter on Syria.

There is also an enlightening article on the geopolitics of interference in the countries near the Caspian sea, which include Syria, Iran,Ukraine: Why are we warmongering in the Ukraine and nearby? at http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3792

Over 160,000 Syrians have died since March 2011 as a direct consequence of the decision by the rulers of the Western 'democracies' and Israel together with the dictatorial rulers of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to launch a war against the people of Syria and its government. Australian governments, including the previous 'Labor' government, and particularly former Foreign Minister Bob Carr, have been shamefully complicit in this grotesque crime against humanity. The Australian 'news' media has also misled the Australian public about Syria since March 2011.

Conclusive proof can be found in the video the Press Conference of 3 Jun 2014 held by the United Nations Syrian ambassador, Bashar Al-Jaafri, following the Syrian elections on 20 June 2014. See http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3888
http://candobetter.net/?q=syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnFQd4wBXnk http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrias-press-conference-the-united-nations-doesnt-want-you-to-see/5387795

At this press conference sat five United States citizens who observed the elections. They all confirmed what had already been known to people who were informed about Syria - that the Syrian people overwhelmingly support President Bashar al-Assad and had shown this in the elections of 3 June 2013 which were fair and transparent:

10,319,723 or 88.7% of the 11,634,412 who voted or 73.4% of all 15,845,575 Syrians eligible to vote, voted for Bashar al-Assad.

What other political leader, can claim to enjoy anywhere near as much support? Compare this support for President al-Assad with that achieved by President Obama in 2012. compared to 73.4% of all Syrians, both at home and abroad, with the enormous difficulties they faced, a mere 29.7% of eligible voters voted for Barack Obama in December 2012 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012 http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html).

The fact that the Syrian Arab Army still controls nearly all of Syria after 3 years of conflict is further confirmation that claims that Bashar al-Assad has overwhelming support. What dictator, so hated and corrupt as has claimed by the media has been able to cling to power, without any help from a foreign army of occupation for so long?

Giday BiancaDog and malthusista

Your odd posts which appear to be blaming Western and Sunni Governments for the sins of Syria's Shiite regime are more than a little strange.

Are you sending this stuff from Damascus?

BiancaDog asks:"Why are we warmongering in the Ukraine and nearby?"

Simple, because we elect governments with excellent sets of hands and knees.

At http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16435#287840, Plantagenet wrote, "Your odd posts which appear to be blaming Western and Sunni Governments for the sins of Syria's Shiite regime are more than a little strange. Are you sending this stuff from Damascus?"

Why strange? Because they don't swallow the nonsense put out by our press? The explanations we get for NATO shennanigans are a lot stranger than reality, IMHO.

I'm writing from Melbourne, but the video I linked to was of US observers filmed in a UN forum. I am blaming the US/NATO because I do not see how a civil war unsupported by the majority of Syrians could have gone on so long in the absence of their underwriting, interference and massive propaganda. The Syrian government was not and is not a 'regime', nor is it religious. Syria is a non-sectarian state. Much of its law resembles the French civil code as usually happens to once-French colonies. Religious extremism is coming from the outside, including the awful Gulf States in league with NATO. Syria contains several strong tribes, used to settling differences between them. Their members are of all kinds of religions and non-religions. Outside interference is destroying a functional state. I have a background in petroleum politics so I can see why US/NATO is messing around in this region, trying to isolate both Iran and Russia. My knowledge here alerted me to the extreme superficiality of mainstream press reporting, a la Murdoch, Fairfax, CNN. I did some research by talking to a lot of Syrians, here and elsewhere and using other news sources. Syrian Girl Partisan is a fantastic source you may not have heard of. http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3861 and Mother Agnes Mariam: http://candobetter.net/?q=taxonomy/term/4510

NOTE: I also tried to find out why Bashar al Assad was supposed to be such a brutal dictator. I have yet to find out why. Do you know why? I promise you I have looked long and hard. Even to Hilary Clinton's reasons for viewing Bashar this way in her diary on her role as US Secretary of State, e.g. here: http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3906