More cliché riddled drivel. Without those very real myth makers who have fought in all those wars Boko Harem would be the norm and no doubt Jim would be a very pious mullah. It takes hard honest men without the endemic delusions of "Progressives" and other such parasites to stand between evil and civilisation. ANZAC glorifies those who protect, not the manner in which they have to. War is brutal, nasty, cruel, sickening and many other similes, it is just better than the alternative.

What a pile of drivel.

My understanding of ANZAC Day is that it is to remind people what utter hell the First World War was and by comparison other wars are and how we should do whatever we can to avoid wars in the future.

As Chamberlain demonstrated in 1939, appeasement is not always the best policy.

I found the positive comparison of a ficticious event in Easter with the reality of the stupid invasion of Turkey at Gallipoli tended to detract from the authors arguments about myth making.

Yes, certainly many wars are unjust, but not all wars. What chance would pacifism have as an effective policy against the Nazis or the Japanese during WW2?

The author is able to freely practise his religion in a liberal democratic society because the West was militarily capable of resisting Muslim attacks during the Middle Ages and the fascists and communists of the 20th century. There's evidence that human societies are becoming less violent, however there's still a long way to go before we arrive at a pacifist Utopia. Pacifism has only survived as a philosophy because people have gone to war to protect the kind of society that allows it.

The author is too selective in his accounts of both ANZAC and Easter.

Yes, ANZAC is a myth, and like all powerful myths it is capable of very different, even seemingly contradictory, interpretations. Those who see it as a reminder of the horrors of war that should never be repeated, stand shoulder-to-shoulder with those who honour the dead for the sacrifices they made. It is impossible to say that one is right and the other wrong, and it is rather arrogant of Jim to say “I believe Anzac day is not about honouring the dead.” Perhaps he doesn’t believe so, but for others it has very different meaning.

Likewise, while I have great respect for Walter Wink and likeminded theologians, it has to be said that for much of Christian history the Easter story has been precisely a “myth of redemptive violence”. Penal substitution theory, the vicarious suffering of the Saviour for others’ sins, the necessity of Jesus’ crucifixion for human salvation, and imagery of “washing in the blood of the lamb”, reinforced cultural concepts of noble and necessary sacrifice that were bound to spread beyond the church.

If our thoughts turn to noble and saving sacrifice at Anzac time, so soon after Easter, it’s not hard to see where the cultural roots of these ideas might have been nourished.

Hmmm Tonto Thinking

Tonto say - Thank Christ theologian Wink wasn't able to publish this drivel on Anzac Day (there being no OLO post that day).

Tonto also say this theologian's observations are disrespectful when theologian say "temple like structure of the Canberra War Memorial in one direction and the likewise religious steeple above the new parliament in the other direction."

Tonto asking - "Is Canberra therefore city of pubes between erections?"

Tonto typed while Planta praying.

Hello, do you know how can I post my topic on the forum ??
Could you please teach me how to do it ?

'What chance would pacifism have as an effective policy against the Nazis or the Japanese during WW2?'

And what chance would the military have as an effective policy against a world driven by pacifism?

I'm so sick to death of this argument. Europe was 'saved' from totalitarian fascism only to have more than half of it turned over to totalitarian communism in a cynical post-war carve-up. And the allied invasion didn't save the Jews (if anything, it meant the few who were left starved to death, along with many Germans), neither did the allies even care about them - that didn't become a cause celebre for at least another decade.

Imperial Japan brutally invaded the very countries that had been brutally invaded and colonised by Imperial Europe - and without Japan, those nations might still be under the European colonial yolk.

As with WWI, WWII simply decided which power axis would rule the world's financial system and control the world's resources for the next 50 years. And, hey, only about 90 million people had to die in the process.

And as for the argument that the good guys won, well, how can we be so sure of that?

There's plenty of evidence that US and British bankers, fearing the rise of socialism, collaborated with German industrialists to finance the rise of the Nazi party. There is also plenty of evidence that Hitler would have sued for peace as early as 1941 had the allies come to the party - but no, it had to be Germany's total surrender, so tens of millions more had to die. And there's plenty of evidence that Japan's expansionism was directly linked to the oil embargoes imposed on it by the US and European imperial powers in Asia, alarmed by the emergence of a powerful Asian rival.

The world wouldn't be all that different today had Germany and/or Japan won. We'd just have a different set of nations proclaiming themselves the good guys.

"I am convinced it is the only way open to followers of Jesus."

We are all extremely fortunate that previous generations, including large numbers of devoted and active Christians, did not agree with you, or there would be very few 'followers of Jesus' left.

Blue Sky,
At the top of the General section,(light green page) you will see a box with 'Start a new Discussion' written in it. Click there and then follow the instructions.

Thank you Banjo

I lost 13 of my Uncles in some of these engagements!
These men to a man volunteered, and went and did their civic duty, to protect and serve King/Queen and country!
It was not a picnic or tea party!
And most of the men were terrified within an inch of their lives, yet carried on in support of their mates.
Those who became real legends on the Kakoda trail, seriously believed they were protecting family and friends!
Factually they were, and far too many paid the ultimate price for so doing, not to mention things like dysentery or disabling malaria, or dengue or blackwater fever!
Or as seriously wounded, but still able to walk, continued to carry the fight to the enemy!
As someone who took the Queen's shilling, I take extreme umbrage with those who seek to disparage or downplay the real heroism of many of these men, none less than Simpson and his donkey!

On a less serious note: A new chum just arrived at Gallipoli, hugging the wall of a feces covered trench, seeking shelter from the ever present machine guns and an anti personal barrage; remarked, "this must be what hell is like"!
Yes, replied a war weary digger, with typical laconic dry humor, "at least there are no flies"!
Rhrosty.

Excellent points Killarney.As General Smedley Butler said,'War is a racket." The bankers continue to fund both sides of the military industrial complex.