LEGO,

You can continue to ask me the same questions using different wording for the rest of the year if you like, but you’re not going to find a contraction.

<<If the concept of race is MOSTLY a cultural construct, then it must be PARTIALLY something else. I am fascinated to know what else this unknown factor could be.>>

Fascinated? You weren't very interested when I mentioned it six times on the other thread, and in my discussion with Shockadelic on this thread. How about the less-than-1% genetic difference I was mentioned?

<<This is very important because if we are debating whether racism is valid or not, then it is essential that we both have the same concept of what "a race" is.>>

The concept of race is very blurred. I cannot help being more educated than you in acknowledging that. Genetically (which is where you want to go), I have already pointed out the difference (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15856#274724).

<<I predict that you will not answer me, because I think that you are deliberately qualifying the concept of race, because you can see the contradiction in your own logic, and you need to toss a red herring to keep me from pursuing it.>>

Well, you predicted wrong, didn’t you. Now please point to me the contradiction.

<<As to my "slanderous claims", my premise … is that races are a social construct (or "cultural construct") of the very real recognisable differences in human sub species.>>

Agreed. Though that didn't nullify the slanderous claims of insincerity in any way.

<<These sub species, just like animal sub species, have recognisably different temperaments, physical appearances, physical attributes, and intelligence levels.>>

Evidence for the 'temperaments' claim please.

I have provided you with plenty of sociological and criminological explanations before (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15856&page=0). Now do me the courtesy of providing me with evidence that nullifies all of that.

<<The differences in human sub species in regards physical appearances is self evident>>

Which is why I didn’t claim that all races were equal in every way, as you wanted me to.

Continued…

…Continued

<<…if races differ in physical appearances and physical attributes, then it is reasonable to presume that they differ in mental attributes as well.>>

We’ve I’ve already covered this in great detail, so please astonish me with this new found information you apparently have. How do you unbake the cake (so to speak) in a way that no scientist has yet been able to? How do you discredit marginalisation, poverty and the lack of social bonds that immigrants experience? Your following paragraph doesn’t do it. They’re what researchers call “spurious observations”.

Evidence please.

Shockadelic,

<<Yes, the Nazis and KKK were "racist".
That doesn't mean all "racists" believe or want the same things or will act in the same ways as the Nazis and KKK.>>

I never suggested that they did.

Another inane comment.

But you still have too many unanswered points from our discussion before. You don’t get to say “good bye” when it suits you and then re-enter the conversation where you think it’s going to be convenient for your point-of-view. Answer my previous points and then we’ll take it from there, or admit you were wrong and we’ll continue from this point.

AJ Philips "How about the less-than-1% genetic difference I was mentioned?"

Aren't chimpanzees only 2% different to us?
Aren't dog and cat breeds the results of minute genetic difference?

Nobody denies the result of these minor differences within other species and between species.

Nobody denies a Rottweiler is significantly different (including temperament and appearance) to an Old English Sheepdog.

Only when it comes to humans is genetic difference ignored.
This is a political decision and has nothing to do with nature or science.

"Another inane comment."

Your entire argument is inane.
Goodbye.

OK AJ. You managed to derail me when you objected to my claim that you were acknowledging that races were a social construct. You stood on your dignity and claimed I was misquoting you. You sniffed that what you had said was that the concept of race was "mostly a cultural construct." Social construct or cultural construct, we are clearly talking about the same thing.

Lets get back to first principles, because you have claimed that I have misrepresented your position, and you have partially misrepresented mine.

I take the view that all races have members who are genetically prone to violence and criminal behaviour. But most of the black races appear to have a much higher incidence of people prone to this genetic condition. I also propose that two noted scientists have published the results of 80 years of research into human intelligence and have concluded that intelligence levels differ between the three primary races. The head of the Human Genome Project, Nobel Prize winner, and co founder of the double helix structure of DNA, agreed with them, and got sacked from his job for being a heretic to the faith of human equality.

Since there is clear causal link between low intelligence and violent criminal behaviour, the two concepts cross connect.

Now, your view, is that the concept of race is "mostly a cultural construct." My interpretation of your premise is, that you are saying that "race" only exists in people's minds, and not in reality. Could you please acknowledge this? Or, if my conclusion is wrong, could you please explain what you mean when you say that race is "mostly a cultural construct'?

Be careful, because if you say that different races only exist in people's imaginations, (and not in reality) then you are clearly proposing that the concept of race is completely invalid, except as a physical descriptor. And since the concept of "race" is invalid, all people of every "mostly culturally constructed" "races" must be equal in every way (other than physical appearance.)

John J, Tony Abbot is getting messages from angels, that's why he resurrected Sir & Dame, the angels live in la la land like he does.

Shockadelic,

<<Aren't chimpanzees only 2% different to us?>>

The gene expression in humans and chimps is very different so your comparison is invalid. LEGO tried this one on the other thread.

<<Aren't dog and cat breeds the results of minute genetic difference?>>

Gene expression.

<<Only when it comes to humans is genetic difference ignored.
This is a political decision and has nothing to do with nature or science.>>

Don't we feel silly now.

So according to your understanding of genes, different races are halfway to being an entirely different species; this is just not spoken about for political reasons.

It's no wonder you think outbreeding depression is so detrimental.

LEGO,

Now, I know you're not this stupid...

<<You stood on your dignity and claimed I was misquoting you. You sniffed that what you had said was that the concept of race was "mostly a cultural construct." Social construct or cultural construct, we are clearly talking about the same thing.>>

Your mistake was omitting the "mostly"; which is why I capitalized it for emphasis. So my charge of dishonesty on your behalf not only still stands, but is now more pertinent than ever before.

<<Lets get back to first principles, because you have claimed that I have misrepresented your position...>>

A claim that still stands.

<<...and you have partially misrepresented mine.>>

Well it doesn't look like it anymore now, does it.

<<...most of the black races appear to have a much higher incidence of people prone to this genetic condition.>>

Fine. So how have you ruled out sociological, psychological, criminological, and other biological explanations for this?

<<I also propose that two noted scientists have published the results of 80 years of research into human intelligence and have concluded that intelligence levels differ between the three primary races.>>

You mean The Bell Curve? There are multiple problems with the research in that book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Criticisms
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/the-bell-curve/
http://www.slate.com/articles/briefing/articles/1997/01/the_bell_curve_flattened.html
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/dBell.htm

Continued...