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The Forum > Article Comments > Nothing to stop young workers being paid above minimum > Comments

Nothing to stop young workers being paid above minimum : Comments

By Alex Philipatos, published 7/4/2014

Youth wages acknowledge age can be a relatively good proxy for gaining workforce skills and experience, discipline, maturity and attitude.

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I've always argued for wages equality!
Some very young people can be quickly capable of outperforming/outproducing those that teach them, and as a consequence, should be at least equally rewarded.
The only people that are routinely over rewarded, I believe, are hugely over-rewarded CEO's and directors, some of who are little better than parasites, sucking the life blood of enterprise, capital, out of this or that enterprise, or worse, essential services!?
And this same group, will argue as a matter of course, that young people should be far less well rewarded?
And certainly not around 2-300,000 per, for an average of 45-50 hours annual work, inclusive of travel time, or business luncheons, etc/etc!?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 7 April 2014 10:27:17 AM
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It is a difficult situation. Clearly young workers have a lot to learn, and I don't think they should get equal pay unless they are doing equal work. However, many companies exploit the youth wage opportunities available to them. At 19, my nephew is 'too old' to work at KFC, basically because a young teenager can do the same work as an adult there, but for less. Retailers complain about difficult trading conditions but fail to connect the dots back to their revolving-door policy of employing the cheapest available young staff on perpetually shifting rosters. Of course above award pay MAY be offered, but I've never heard of it happening. One of our local 'big two' supermarkets is so badly managed that they routinely mess up rostered hours, go over budget and then ring the kids on the day to say their shift has been cancelled. They also expect the kids to tell THEM if their rostered hours are putting them onto penalty rates of pay.

On balance, though, I'm in favour of youth pay rates if it gets them a job and into the habit of working. That will end up being far more valuable to them than the earnings they miss out early on.
Posted by Candide, Monday, 7 April 2014 11:49:53 AM
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The author says...The unions argue an 18 year old who can drink, vote, drive and fight for their country.......

While that may be a valid argument on the surface, What FWA and the unions don't consider is the fac that most youth today attend school up until 17, so, to then put them into work and expect an employer to pay adult wages at just 18 is a job cutting exercise if ever I've seen one. 20, I don't have a real issue with, but any lower will spell deserter for youth employment. If you don't agree, simply observe what happens if and when they go there.

As for the likes of KFC, they have exhaubed huge increases in power, insurance and their rents just keep going up.

At the end of the day, if their product becomes too expensive, the consumer stops buying, so employing youth is their only option.

My daughter worked for KFC and despite being hard on here, 11 pm finnishes etc, it was the grounding she needed and, if not for the low wage rates, chances are she would never have got that start.

She also have very committed and supportive parents, another major problem many youth of today don't have.

FWA and the unions have the bullets in the gun, so go ahead and pull the trigger, but I can assure them they won't like the outcome as they will decimate youth employment.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 7 April 2014 12:30:46 PM
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If you stay in the large company world, you can expect award pay rates. Get out into the small employers, & kids are mostly paid what they are worth.

My son had a year of the in school apprenticeship scheme, working one day a week as a boat builder apprentice. After school he started an electrician apprenticeship, but did not like working in roofs, & under buildings, so joined the navy.

When his intake was delayed he had 3 months to fill. A school mate got him a job with the plasterer he was working for, as a laborer. He is a worker, not dumb, & knew his way around tools. Within a month, 12 years ago, he was being paid $1000 a week, had a company work ute to drive home, & the boss was begging him to stay on.

They were offering him $1500 a week, if he would sign up to do the trade course, get qualified, & run a team of plasterers/laborers. Not bad at 18 years old.

The same mate, even not qualified, is on a deal like that, & at 30 owns his home, & has a rental house he is financing. Kids who are prepared to work for it, can do very well, in small industry, where awards mean nothing, & they can earn very well, at quite young ages.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 7 April 2014 2:59:57 PM
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That's right Hasbeen, they can earn big money, regardless of their age, BUT, if not for the smaller wage, do you think he would have been given a go?
you see the problem arises when employers ARE FORCED to pay higher wages, regardless of the fact that the employee may well be a face book addicted dud!

The sad truth of the matter is that when you look at our youth, the duds outweigh the valued ones these days, so to have these laws forced upon you as an employer, will mean less people like your son will even get the chance to prove their worth, but the likes of the unions and FWA just don't get it.

Well done to your son, you must be proud of him. He is living proof of what can be achieved, without big brother reading the riot act to employers.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 7 April 2014 3:39:26 PM
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Have to agree with hasbeen!
All too often businesses today are managed by young Turks, who may not have done a days work in their lives, and consequently, have unrealistic expectations of others, regarding time taken and productive output.
A classic example would be, expecting public servants, to nut out and fully implement a national pink batts roll-out in just two days!? And then overruling their recommendations?
Large companies always have very simplistic bean counter excuses, for preferring teenagers, or lower paid workers.
Aussie companies like Franlin's, for example, found out as literal fact or as hard won experience, that retaining older adult workers, repaid them handsomely, with a productive outcome, far and away, worth considerably more, than the relatively small if any savings, that they gained by exclusively employing young teenagers.
Think, if you knew for a fact, that you might only be employed for just one or two years, would you seriously commit to the company and or your job?
For mine, it would be a just a convenient stepping stone, while I looked for a better outcome and better employment options. The sooner the better!
Training and retraining has a cost, and may mean employing two or one and a half, often skylarking youngsters, to do the job of one single, mature, extremely experienced employee.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 7 April 2014 4:16:11 PM
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The foolishness of governments and unions buying votes by interfering in business can best be discerned by what happened in my own industry.

I am an electrician, and when I became an apprentice, wages were very low and apprenticeships easy to acquire. Every small company had more apprentices than tradesmen as they were considered cheap labour to do the more menial and repetitive tasks. Most employers took it for granted that the boys were not going to be of much use until they reached halfway through their second year of training. But that was alright because the low wages made it economic to hire them and time would sort out the winners from the losers.

This all changed with the election of the Whitlam government. The unions saw a chance to expand their union membership by supporting the case for much higher wages for young apprentices. This they hoped, would show young people the benefits of joining a union. The Labor government supported it because they wanted the youth vote.

Employers, especially the small contractors screamed that if youth wages were increased 200% then that would make apprentices uneconomic to hire. But the governments and unions refused to budge on their vote and membership buying idea. What happened was exactly what we are seeing today. First, the small contractors, who were the main ones who hired apprentices, stopped hiring them. Eventually, even the large companies stopped hiring apprentices.

Calls by the government for businesses to show some community spirit and hire young people at high wages fell on deaf ears. So, what did our stupid governments do then? What they always do when their stupid policies fail. They created a department to manage failure.

Suddenly we see the creation of quasi official "apprentice employment agencies" which hire apprentices out to business. These agencies only take the boys with the highest HSC marks. Apprentice numbers have subsequently fallen to below replacement of retiring members. Ain't socialism grand?
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 4:25:30 AM
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Nowadays we have a whole new problem to contend with when employing our youth, facebbok addiction.

In fact, out here in the QLD gas fields, it has been suggested that many young workers start their jobs, then chuck it in after a few rotations as they are not allowed to take their mobile phones with them when working in the industry. The phones are considered a potential ignition source.

Now these are people who are often earning three grand a week or more, because in this industry, age (18 plus) is usually not a barrier, as even first year apprentices can earn in excess of a $100K per year.

So paying them more in mainstream will make their worth even less valuable to future employers.

If only governments and unions would listen to industry experts.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 7:56:38 AM
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Yes LEGO, so true, but there is another problem with apprentice training.

So many trades require a bit of math. Electrical requires quite a bit of math. Most of the kids, leaving school at 17 from senior high school today, have less math than the 15 year olds leaving junior high 20 years or more ago. This is a result of the feminisation of scientific subjects, to allow girls to handle them.

A friend of ours is now running remedial math classes at 2 TAFE colleges, where they were finding none of the electrical & even carpentry apprentices were finishing the courses. They all found the math too hard, & dropped out. Of the course my son started, only 1 of 9 actually qualified.

You can trot off to university, & get an environmental science degree, without enough math to pitch a roof.

Perhaps when brighter kids work out that many tradies today earn much more than arts graduates get flipping burgers, we may get some sense back into education.

Incidentally that defense force rout is a pretty good one. My son now has engineering qualifications, electrical tickets, diesel fitter tickets, power house tickets, & is one of the highest qualified welders in the country.

He is currently instructing officer cadets, & they send him off to courses in between intakes to keep him happy, he does get bored quickly.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 1:17:13 PM
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