Yes, Australia has rarely worked so closely with China.
While the tragedy of this plane's apparent fate is not to be minimised, the close working relationship established between our two countries because of it should rightly be seen as a good thing.
China is our largest neighbour, one of our largest business partners and a pre-eminent power in our neighbourhood. It is right and fitting and timely that we begin to learn how to work closely with China on all matter of issues.
We love it when they come as tourists. Why not as grieving relatives when most of the passengers on the ill-fated flight were Chinese.
That the appearance of two Chinese IL-76 aircraft caused comment is, hopefully, only due to the novelty. China is raising its profile. They will be seen more and more. Let's work with that.

Who causes the most hatred in the world, the good old USA, with every airbase in the vicinity being prepared for war with China by them, it is great to see a helping hand given by Australia to the Chinese relatives of the plane disaster, live in peace not war.

Thanks for your comments.

PerthNowNews, March 27, 2014 reports http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/perths-chinese-community-opens-its-arms-to-relatives-of-mh370-passengers/story-fniztvnf-1226866877508 :

“MEMBERS of Perth’s Chinese community have offered spare rooms in their homes to accommodate relatives of passengers and crew on the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Sammy Yap, president of the Chung-Wah Association, said he assumed Malaysian authorities or the airline would help with such arrangements for the families.

"But if there is a need, we do have volunteers who have put up their hands and said `look, we have got a few beds and we can house these people if necessary’," Mr Yap told ABC TV.

He said the association had access to practising counsellors who wanted to help the relatives cope with their grief. And many people of all professions and racial backgrounds, not just Chinese, were calling to volunteer to help in other ways, Mr Yap said.

"It’s very encouraging and heartwarming,” he said.

Mr Yap said the association was relying on the state government for information about the expected arrivals and was also in contact with Perth Airport, which had "been bombarded as well with questions that they’re not able to answer". "So we’re helping each other out, keeping each other informed of developments," he said.

Premier Colin Barnett said he expected hundreds of victims’ families would travel to the West Australian capital, the closest city to what is believed to be their loved ones’ final resting place.

It’s also understood residents of The Vines in Perth’s northeastern suburbs, home to the family of MH370 passenger Paul Weeks, have banded together to show them support.” ENDS

Pete

I sincerely send my condolences to all who have lost friends and loved ones aboard MH370.

Who causes the most hatred in the world, the good old USA,
Ojnab,
You mean those who hate the USA are the ones who cause so much hatred.

That's one of your great and enduring attributes Individual...you never "suck"!

I really wish we had true freedom of speech here in Australia (like the old days)...I'd like to say something truthful about the Chinese!

Parts of another touching report from PerthNowNews, March 28, 2014 at http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/perth-memorial-planned-for-flight-mh370-passengers-ahead-of-families-arrival/story-fniztvnf-1226867948678 :

"A MEMORIAL for the passengers and crew of Flight MH370 is being planned in Perth ahead of the arrival of family members.

...A cross and wreath in memory of MH370 passengers and crew was earlier this week placed on the fence at Royal Australian Air Force’s Pearce Air Base in Bullsbrook, north of Perth.

...On Sunday, the 239 people on-board the Malaysia Airlines jet will be remembered at a service at the Fo Guang Shan Temple in Maylands.

The Buddha’s Light International Association of WA is holding its annual prayer service Qing Ming Dharma, which commemorates deceased relatives."

Pete

It seems "a little unreal" that if we consider China to be a possible military threat, that we would import hundreds of thousands of Chinese nations into Australia as immigrants. That makes about as much sense as the Ukrainians importing Russians into the Crimea, or the Serbs importing Muslims into Kosovo.

The idea that immigrants divest themselves of their national or religious loyalties and identities the instant they set their big toes onto the soil of their new homelands has taken a real hit lately with the "rivers of blood" that flowed down the façade of the British College of Surgeons in London when that bus blew up.

Even the USA has had three spectacular defections of "Chinese/Americans" taking vital defence secrets to China. One involved a Chinese/American in the US ballistic missile program who defected to China. The Chinese "Long MArch" intercontinental ballistic missile is a cloned copy of a US ICBM. Another defection involved a Chinese/American who was involved into nuclear submarine technology who is now helping to build nuclear submarines for China. Even worse, was the defection of a Chinese/American who defected taking a substantial part of the US "stealth technology with him. You guessed it, the Chinese are now well advanced on producing their own "Stealth" aircraft.

Even non military technology like genetic engineering is being stolen by former Chinese nations and being given to China destroying the technological lead which the western world still has over our potential foes.

Thank you. multiculturalism.

"Chinese/Americans" taking vital defence secrets to China.
Lego,
Well, to my mind this would be a "normal" scenario for any National. When you have millennia of culture such loyalty is literally genetic. That is something Americans & especially Australians will not grasp unless it is blown into their faces in a violent way. This is why so many non-aboriginal Australians have that ignorant do-gooder mentality. Racial loyalty is a totally foreign concept to them. Why ? Because non-aboriginal Australians are not a race as such. That's why their ignorance is readily being exploited by racists whenever someone makes a statement riecking of fact & truth. The real racists i.e. those who bleat racism at the slightest whim know this & exploit it. Patriotism, as much as many people want it to be a National thing thing is not, it is racial. That's why Multiculturalism is such an immense failure. Multiculturalism "appears" to work because it's problems are hidden away in enclaves.

Only a tiny proportion of Chinese immigrants or shorter term residents to the US would be involved in technical secret espionage.

The Long March series are civilian booster rockets - though yes booster technology especially those with solid fuel can have military uses - eg ICBM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_(rocket_family)

China does possess thermonuclear "H-Bomb" warheads that are mysteriously similar to the US W88 thermonuclear warhead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W88#Design_revelations

However the vast majority of China's vast immigrant, student and tourist populations in the US would not be involved in espionage.

Also look at Russians, French, Japanese, South Koreans...?

plantagenet,
The "handy' thing for such groups is that they can be fence sitters in a fully, morally aceptable way. When the crap starts hitting the proverbial fan is when the smell becomes apparent as well. People who believe that MC works are fooling themselves to no end, their argument can not be countered until it is too late. One simply can not expect for example the Palestinians to ever tolerate the Isrealis & vise versa or the Chinese with the Tibetans or the New Guineans with the Aboriginines etc etc.
Once the threat of conflict transcends into actual conflict is when the stark realities come to light and, as I said earlier, by that time it is too late.

On a lesser note I cannot stand Tony Abbott for resurrecting those snobby Royalty titles, which we can do without, so like all countries that do not get on, I am no better than them, and would much prefer Tony Abbott didn't exist.

Hi individual

Australia can only use its position wisely with its eyes open.

Australia isn't in an antagonistic position against China and doesn't have to be in future. There are some hawks in the US, such as McCain, that would prefer the US and its allies WERE antagonistic towards China.

We are in that middle zone of many shades between subservience and antagonism towards China.

Staying in that middle zone - one could call it Businesslike - is our best position I think.
--

Hi Ojnab

Yeah I can see your point.

And besides if any woman I'm with becomes a Dame does that make me M'Lady, M'Lord or Sire *

Denis Thatcher had that problem when Maggie got K-nighted.

I reckon John Howard as Abbott's mentor will be the second bloke to be Sir-ed.

Pete

* see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sire or (for God's Sake!) His Eminence Cardinal Pell.

Oh god Ojnab, who the hell cares about a few twits with letters before or after their name.

If that is the worst thing any PM ever does to you, or us, we will be bloody lucky.

Hell we could even have put up with that smirking bit of rubbish, Rudd, if he had done no worse.

I cannot stand Tony Abbott for resurrecting those snobby Royalty titles,
Ojnab,
I must admit I was rather disappointed when I found out. To think that Peter Cosgrove is on 425 Grand a year basic wage plus all the plusses. No-one in the public service should get that kind of privilege after all they already get exceptionally good conditions. On the other hand it is not much different to how academics are put on pedestals. They all get there with the blue collar workers' taxes subsidising their more often than not quite frivolous positions.
Then you have to look at those filthy rich, obscenely wealthy Arabs whose poor we're to taking in at our expense because our academic & otherwise ignorant do-gooders have the numbers in Government & the media, until their numbers are right to take us over.
Be it the British or the Saudis or some other african or asian elite/monarchists or even show business celebrities, they're all exploiting the ignorant who happen to make up the democratic majority.

Individual & Hasbeen, correct in what you are writing, but where do we go from here? seems that society throughout the world has hatred to some other person or country, mainly coming from those who rule us peasants, if we go to WW1 the peasants were sent off to fight for King and Country, King! would we do that now? I don't think so and certainly hope not
Human beings are strange, although like the animal kingdom we seem to want some sort of a leader, lets look at the coming visit of Royalty, who will be in attendance at most functions, top brass of course, you know the ones with position or loaded with money. who will be stupidly on the street waving their allegiance flag,the stupid peasants again, why? for goodness sake the peasants changed that long ago in Russia when they lined up to wave to the diamond studded parasite parades the Royalty offered, we all know what happened to them.
Perhaps one is not following the post as such, but it is what causes anger and hatred to develop, this being only one line of thought of many, like Abbott & Rudd which you mentioned Hasbeen, although I only mentioned Abbott, their are many, like religion and so on to create tension throughout the world and conflict.
To kill a person or persons is not an acheivment, (Cosegrove) but war to the gentry is what it is all about, honours abound, the more you kill the better, Royalty has always been mixed up in the killing fields, in the past and will be indirectly in the future

Any chance someone is going to actually state the obvious?
Given the capability of Radar back during WW2
Is it remotely conceivable that the military of the USA, China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Australia would not know exactly were this plane went and where it finished up?

The great USA with its bases spread across 190 countries, 6 or so secret intelligence gathering and communications facilities in this country. Some the in Philippines, the Indian Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, aircraft carriers, drones, satellites ...

What a media we have? What a military? One is only good for celebrity scandals and the other for defending us against helpless boat people.

We are collectively living within some cheap motivational book, where by sheer force of make believe, we can focus on a happy narrative and all the unhappy things will just not exist. Until of course you are on the next flight MH370, the next WTC, the next refugee boat, the next country who's resources are coveted - oooops that is a bit too close to home.

the next country who's resources are coveted - oooops that is a bit too close to home.
YEBIGA,
Please enlighten us as to how MH370 is possibly related to your above comment ?

Meanwhile keeping off the predictable anti-US conspiracies, given countries searching, which includes the US, would naturally wish to claim credit for finding anything...

Some important News from Australia's Sunday Telegraph, March 30, 2014 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/former-defence-chief-angus-houston-to-lead-search-for-missing-mh370-plane/story-fni0cx4q-1226868723897 :

AUSTRALIA will appoint former Defence Force chief Angus Houston to help coordinate the international search effort for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 as investigators race to find the aircraft’s black box.

[He] will lead a new Joint Agency Coordination Centre to be established in Perth, with Australia now taking the lead to coordinate the massive operation and communicate the latest information to international partners and victim’s families.

...It will provide a single contact point for families to gain up-to-date information and travel assistance including visa services, accommodation advice, interpreter services and counselling.

He will also play a role in coordinating diplomatic efforts with search partners...

While Malaysia will maintain responsibility for the investigation under international law [this may cause some overlap...], Perth’s proximity to the search area and local search and investigation capabilities mean that the operation will be based in Australia.

The WA Government is also preparing for up to 1,000 mourning family members to travel to Perth as the recovery operation gets underway. Australia has previously announced it will waive visa fees for victims’ families. The international media contingent is also likely to increase..." SEE WHOLE ARTICLE

Pete

Another report today http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/30/09/15/retrieved-debris-not-part-of-missing-jet :

The Australian navy ship [Australian Defence Vessel ADV Ocean Shield 6,500 tonnes] given the job of finding the black box recorder of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 is preparing to leave Perth with still no clue as to the missing plane's whereabouts.

...The Ocean Shield, which leaves Perth on Monday on an initial 30-day mission, has been fitted with US Navy equipment designed to electronically hunt for the box, including a towed pinger locator and unmanned underwater drone.

Captain Mark Matthews, the US Navy supervisor of salvage and diving, revealed on Sunday that while the pinger is certified for 30 days, it could last for up to another 15 days [ie up to 45 days].

The towed pinger locater on the Ocean Shield has a range of 1.6km and depth capability up to 6000m, with the search set to be conducted at a speed of just 5km/h.

--

For those truly into TECHNO PORN Ocean Shield not only has a 2,000 hp retractable azimuth thruster, but a 2,400 hp tunnel thruster :-)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADV_Ocean_Shield

Pete

the next country who's resources are coveted - oooops that is a bit too close to home.
YEBIGA,
Please enlighten us as to how MH370 is possibly related to your above comment ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 30 March 2014 1:12:15 PM

Why is it not obvious? MH370 has landed in the Kimberley's waiting to be dug up by a consortium of mining companies. Ok that is a bit silly.
The Zionists took the plane - wait that is for nutters.

The truth is there is satelite footage of plane like wreckage located deep in your skull. I had an uncle who lived a long prosperous life with shrapnel embedded in his head from WW2, I would not worry about. If you start hearing voices its probably the black boxes.

I hear that QANTAS intends to make a comeback by producing advertisements which stress "We Have No Muslim Pilots."

More technical details of whats coming to the MH370 search area on Australia's ADV Ocean Shield:

Two bits or critical search technology that the US has provided to search for MH370's Black Box:

- the Towed Pinger Locator (TPL) 25. Searchers tow the TPL behind ADV Ocean Shield at 1 to 5 knots and listen for the ping of the Black Box. It can detect a Black Box located up to 20,000 feet below the surface. http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4300&tid=400&ct=4

- IF (and its not guaranteed) the TPL detects pings the Bluefin-21, a highly modular autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV), would be lowered by ADV Ocean Shield. This would confirm the location of the Black Box with various sensors including visual. Here's a short 30 second description of Bluefin-21 http://youtu.be/zIAdU1kecak
and a longer 6 minute one http://youtu.be/Wpj10Qw1RWk

- next steps would probably be recovery of the cockpit data recorder, flight data recorder, and engine functioning recorder(s)

Pete

Well done to the leftie, western hating Ojnab, Lego and YEBIGA you've managed to turn the sadness and positives in this tragic situation into a political commentary with little regard to the sensitivities of the grief sticken. Isn't that indicative of your
general lack of compassion.

Imag ai think you should apologise for,your remarks, read my first post, it has nothing to do with your completely absurd remarks, get your facts right before you tap on the keys, my second post was on Imperial awards given by Abbott., nothing to do with the plane disaster.

Iamajuliannutter
We did not lose the plane
I suspect the family members are hurt by those who should and do know where the plane is rather than some random posters who a rightfully calling shenanigans.

How is Not saying its shenanigans more sensitive and compassionate - its retarded

This is a one minute video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D094u-1WDkg of Chinese relatives who've just arrived in Malaysia. In the video their authorised display of the Chinese flag and wearing government supplied T-shirts indicates the Chinese government is influencing their grief.

Secondly - With all the searching off Perth and nothing found I have a sneaking suspicion that the original calculations that the MH370 went down in the southern Indian Ocean may just be circular logic and hope driven. Those calculations were mainly by Inmarsat, Rolls Royce and Malaysian Airlines two weeks ago.

Ismail, perhaps we should be looking after the living rather than by now looking for the obvious dead, we all know it is dreadful for all the families with members taken suddenly from us, but keep in mind your survival rate drops dramatically once you step inside the plane, it is your decision to do so.
The millions of dollars being spent looking for the plane I am sure could be spent as mentioned on the living, because we are not told the truth by anyone these days, who knows the whole thing off Perth could be a military exercise for training purposes. The plane being the excuse.

First 19 goat herders learnt to fly jumbo jets from a flight simulator.
They Hijacked 4 planes and flew 3 of them into buildings singing Derka Derka Mohammed jihad!

Condeleza Rice said - who would think of such a thing!
George Big W Bush said - let us not entertain any wild conspiracy theories
Colonel Powell said - look at this picture, it looks like a McDonald's drive thru but its really a mobile nuclear kebab facility.
Big W said - if the Taliban don't give us binladin we will blow them
Taliban said - here have some Grange Hermitage you western drunkards
Big Bush W said - See they are jealous of our freedoms and then introduced the patriot act!
The Zionists said - now you know what it is like living with Muslim extremist Saddam must die! They said wailing.
PM mahatir said - jews run the world and zionist orchestrated 9/11 and then held an international inquiry which found Zionists guilty of everything.
Zionists said - we haves picture of mahatir with a goat
Mahatir said - so what!
Zionists said - we will make your planes disappear, how you like that?

To be continued...

The following are ships of the Chinese FLEET (too big to be a flotilla) searching for MH370 in the area off Western Australia in the southern Indian Ocean. Basically in descending order of tonnage:

Qiandaohu Type 903 replenishment ship 20,500 tons, long term supplies, rations, fuel, spares.

JinggangShan, Type 071 amphibious transport dock – 20,000 tons carrying life-saving equipment, landing craft, underwater detection equipment, supplies of water and food, two helicopters, 30 medical personnel, 10 divers and a 52-member marine contingent.

KunlunShan Type 071 amphibious transport dock , same details as JinggangShan.

Haikou, Type 052C destroyer 7,000 tons, fleet operations, communications and control, mainly military use radar, sonar and optics. Search helicopter and small UAVs. Can lower boats and dinghies to pick up floating objects.

Haixun 01, 3,000 tons? Coast guard - rescue ship, a helicopter and radar. Perhaps http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90883/8581645.html

Nanhaijiu 115 rescue ship, and

Donghaijiu 101 rescue ship http://english.cntv.cn/2014/03/30/VIDE1396155241742200.shtml

See post on my blog at http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/

Pete

I just wonder, if we are looking in the right place?
The first area, was dropped in favor of something much closer to Australia!
Could the plane have landed somewhere in sparsely populated north western Australia?
Perhaps on an abandoned runway, that last saw service during WW11?
How can we be certain that this mystery, is not part of a conspiracy, to embarrass, Malaysia, and its homophobic fearful Government; and or, bring it into disrepute with a very much larger China/the world?
And if the airliner landed, could it be that it was placed under camouflage, and then offloaded the passengers and refueled?
The passengers, would be totally reliant on others for their very survival and almost certain to be completely compliant?
I mean, everyone knows, that the northwest is a most harsh and rugged country, only traversed by those with specialist survival skills?
With the passengers offloaded, flown across the continent overnight, at a low enough altitude, to beat current radar surveillance, which certainly wouldn't be expecting MH370, to overfly any part of the Australian territory, let alone, parked somewhere in the sunshine coast hinterland?
I don't know where it could land, but there are a number of dirt roads, in the hinterland, which possibly have a straight section long enough, and given a stock route, enough width.
And a plane like that could have been mistaken by sleepy farmers, as an overnight road train? What else could they think?
And many farms have sheds large enough to hide a airliner, perhaps for months!?
The Malaysians have acted as if there was something to hide, or knew more than they were telling?
They have come forth with several different versions of the last conversation with the missing plane.
And it simply defies all rational logic, given the totally unexplained change of course, that this wasn't some sort of conspiracy/terrorist plot, that maybe went wrong, or worse, was spectacularly successful?
Rhrosty.

Hi Rhrosty

I share your doubts to the extent that MH370 may not have followed the assumed rigidly linear route South. It may have diverged between the last two "pings". This could theoretically place it anywhere up to 1,500 kms west of the current search area.

However I think any which way it would have crashed - I'd say 95% chance in the Ocean.

If it was on land it also would have crashed. This is because very large jets need especially paved - very thick concrete-tarmac runways. Even secretly upgraded WWII runways aren't in that league. It takes experts with many earth movers and 1,000s of tons of the right materials.

So if its on land there may be wreckage of MH370 - though very unlikely on Australian soil.

But its most likely that doubts in years might do nothing but launch a thousand books and cults.

Unfortunately the authorities can only concentrate finite resources on the most likely crash area - and have to do it quickly before all debris sinks and the Black Box battery life dies.

Regards

Pete

Australia's news.com.au, April 2, 2014, reports http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/nuclear-submarine-joins-search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226871783527

"NUCLEAR SUB JOINS THE SEARCH [FOR MH370]

A British nuclear submarine [HMS Tireless] is set to join the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The Ministry of Defence said the Trafalgar class submarine had arrived in the southern Indian Ocean and would soon be joined by the survey vessel HMS Echo.

Both ships carry advanced underwater search capabilities which will be applied in the search for the ultrasonic “pings” being emitted by the missing aircraft’s black box flight recorders.

It may prove to be one of the last missions for HMS Tireless, which had originally been scheduled to be scrapped in 2013.

The nuclear-powered submarine was launched in 1984. It carries a crew of 130 and 18 officers."

My Comment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tireless_(S88) was launched in 1984 and has a mixed safety record. Tireless will probably attemp to detect “pings” emitted by MH370's Black Box using its passive sonars and other electronic receivers. It is less likely that Tireless' active sonars and other sensors would be able to "shape" (detect) MH370 debris floating or on the ocean floor. Tireless is unlikely to be equipped to recover MH370 debries from the ocean floor.

HMS Echo - a multi-role hydrographic survey ship of 3,500 tons is likely to be more useful in search and recovery.
-
Pete

The faulty circular logic I referred to earlier in this comment string goes like this:

- Two satellite images taken on 16 March (Australian-US satellite satellite) and 18 March (Chinese satellite) showed 20+ metre long potential aircraft debris in the southern Indian Ocean

But to date these satellite sightings have signified NOTHING (according to followup satellite, aircraft and ship searches).

- The 24 March, INMARSAT "Doppler ping" evidence seemed to support the POSITION of the two satellite images taken on 16 and 18 March theory - but as these images were later found to signify NOTHING (by followup satellite, aircraft and ship searches) INMARSAT was providing supporting evidence signifying NOTHING.

Hence the vast international effort to find anything is time-critical and well-intentioned but once the Black Box batteries die - in about 3 weeks - then probably pointless - aside from international relations benefits.

Something floating may well turn up in months or years once the search has finished. But actually finding anything on the ocean floor is extremely remote.

I hope the above is wrong.

See best assembly of MH370 evidence at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mh370

Pete

There are certainly some way out speculations here.
It is quite simple, Inmarsat using Doppler shift of the Satphone
transmitter frequency on the aircraft, which the crew could not turn off,
were able to determine that the aircraft went south.
The amount and direction of Doppler shift told them how far east or
west of the satellite the southern track lay.
That it went south was probably determined by the fact the shift went
to zero and then rose again because it crossed the equator.
It was near equinox at the time.
All this is a bit of very tricky calculation by Inmarsat and they should be congratulated.

Now all this is supposition by me, but from the little that has been
said by Inmarsat that seems the most likely deduction.

Now the Jindalee system may have seen the aircraft early in its flight
but if it crossed the equator a long way west then probably would not be seen.
Also ionospheric conditions may not have been favourable.
Out where its track is presumed then conventional military radar
would definitely not see it even if there are such radars present.
Even military radars cannot perform miracles.

The latest bit of news about the black box signal being reported in
Chinese newspapers injects a sour note and the Australian Search Centre
having to ask for information is disgraceful.
The Chinese do not seem to have instructed their vessels to report to
the Rescue Controller any and all information.
As the operation is in the area of Australia's Search & Rescue Zone
the searching vessels are under the control of the Search & Rescue Controller.
You can imagine the song and dance if the roles were reversed.

BTW, the reported pulse rate of 37500 pulses per second seems high to
me. Does anyone know what the rate is for these boxes ?

It is time for this whole exercise to be abandoned, it is costing millions to the taxpayer which we cannot afford, let's look after the living and not the dead, one does feel for the families of those on that plane, but enough is enough, like most reporting these days one has a tendacy not to believe what is being said by all the Governments involved in this search, they all know more than what you are reading daily in newspapers.
Secrecy is the order of the day now.

Hi Bazz

37.5 kHz is indeed the international standard for Underwater locator beacon(s) attached to the aviation flight recorders (Black Box). 37.5 kHz appears to provide a good compromise for detecting Black Boxes at likely water depths and have a reasonable horizontal range.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_locator_beacon#Maximum_detection_range:

"A 37.5 kHz ...pinger can be detectable 1–2 kilometres ...from the surface in normal conditions and 4–5 kilometres...in good conditions. A 37.5 kHz...transponder pinger can be detected [presumable a horizontal or diagonal range? of] 4–5 kilometres...in normal conditions and 6–7 kilometres (3.7–4.3 mi) in good conditions."

My problem with Inmarsat's Doppler shift calculations are that they haven't proven useful in practice for MH370. I'm unconvinced about new, theoretical calculations that prove useless in being able to predict verifiable events - like MH370 crashing into the patch of the Southern Indian Ocean from which debris has floated into the current search area.

Still all those satellites, ships and aircraft are doing the best they can within these shortcomings (so far) of indicators.
---

Hi Ojnab

While the Black Box pingers still have enough battery power (which I think may be up to 6 weeks(?)) I reckon the search should continue. So two weeks to go until they perhaps stop.

International relations (especially with CHINA) and legal expectations also count.

Regards

Pete

Hopefully the following is on to MH370's "Black Box" http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-06/malaysia-airlines-mh370-black-box-event-signal-investigated/5370558 :

"A Chinese ship has twice detected a pulse signal with characteristics of an aircraft black box, while an Australian vessel is also investigating an "acoustic noise" in the search for flight MH370.
Retired Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, who is leading the international search effort, said the second detection occurred on Saturday afternoon.

The Chinese [rescue] ship, Haixun 01, has picked up the pulse signal on two separate occasions within a two kilometre zone since overnight on Friday.

"This morning we were contacted by the Chinese authorities and advised that Haixun 01 had late yesterday afternoon redetected the signals for 90 seconds within just two kilometres of the original detection," he said.

"This is an important and encouraging lead, but one which I urge you to continue to treat carefully."...more...

OK Plantagenet, last that I heard was that Inmarsat has shifted its
area a bit south and the detection is in that area.
I would have thought that a better arrangement would be to have a
transponder so that it would just listen, less power, until it heard an
interrogation signal when it would leap into life.
The interrogating signal could be hundreds of watts and then the boxes
transmitter could be much higher powered as it would only be needed
for a much shorter time. Also once woken up it could transmit for say
5 seconds and rest for 55 seconds, that would extend its life many times over.
Anyway all very interesting but no hope there for the relatives.

Hi Bazz

Ocean Shield detecting four sets of pings (including two sets of pings yesterday) in one area is promising.

If they actually find the aircraft on the bottom then retrieving parts and bodies will likely take years.

On whether aviation and broader safety authorities should require upgraded technical functioning of pinger transmitters, it might depend on:

- the results of multi-year inquiries following this MH370 event

- the rarity or otherwise of events like MH370

- the cost of replacing or upgrading transmitters and whether users would generally accept this cost. This is including transmitters for dinky little light aircraft.

- whether pinger receiver equipment needs to be upgraded to detect new style transmitter characteristics.

- whether Safety is the same issue as Recovery of aircraft parts and bodies

Overall, as in car safety, authorities accept or organise a compromise between improved safety and higher cost.

Regards

Pete

Well as to whether safety is related to recovery, unless you get
recovery you cannot find the cause with any certainty.
As far as cost is concerned, how much is this search costing ?

Lots.