The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Ukraine: the next Bosnia? > Comments

Ukraine: the next Bosnia? : Comments

By Walter Zaryckyj, published 12/3/2014

If the animosity Putin created with his intrusion into the internal affairs of Ukraine were to turn into a general Russian-Ukrainian conflict, the struggle would be protracted and messy.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
Once again we have an essay purporting to be even-handed, but upon reading showing the same anti-Russian and pro-Western bias as other pieces of media propaganda printed since the West loosed the dogs of war on Ukraine as soon as they turned down the offer of closer alignment with the EU and looked east to Russia for help.
But to the author's credit, he does expose the rational behind the West's move. Argentina, Australia, Canada, the US and Ukraine are indeed the world's wheat fields. And the only one not controlled by western corporate agri-businesses? Ukraine. Geo-economic, indeed,
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 12 March 2014 9:13:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The article invents the Bosnia straw man and can't sustain it.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 12 March 2014 11:36:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This propaganda may inadvertently serve to inflate Putin’s already overblown ego, but it obscures the incontrovertible fact that Putin did not engineer the Kiev coup- and this reduces the post to Walter’s bias.
Posted by Leslie, Wednesday, 12 March 2014 11:47:16 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Leslie,

The people of Ukraine 'engineered' the coup, and what has Putin done since ? Who is throwing whom off balconies ? Who is blockading legitimate Ukrainian army and naval barracks and airfields ? Who has committed a potential act of war by scuttling ships to prevent Ukrainian ships from pursuing their lawful rights to exit harbors and patrol ?

Has Putin exceeded the numbers of Russian soldiers allowed by the 1994 Treaty ? Have Ukrainian flags been torn down on Ukrainian soil, an act of treason ?

If the West has a dog in this fight, then it is still outside the ring. Putin has sooled his onto Ukraine, and committed innumerable acts of interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. Yes ? No ? Not just in the Crimea but in eastern Ukraine as well, which - surely even you would concede - is part of a sovereign Ukraine.

So all Putin needs now is an 'Incident'. No, maybe he won't even bother, he'll just stack this coming illegal 'referendum' and thumb his nose at the world.

So what will be next ? His aim is to re-conquer the whole of Ukraine and other ex-colonies as well, all once part of the Tsarist empire.

Perhaps there are still English imperialists who hanker for getting 'back' Ireland and India and more besides. Perhaps there are Spanish imperialists who hanker for getting 'their' colonies in the Americas back again. Would you go into bat for them too ? Has imperialism suddenly become a 'good thing' ?

Useful idiots, indeed.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 12 March 2014 3:34:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Australia should use it leadership position at the UN Security Council and in the G20 to support Ukraine and help it avoid becoming another Bosnia. Australia can facilitate peace and economic development in the region and help both sides to cool down and focus on the bigger picture. Foreign Minister Julie Bishop should also open an Embassy in Ukraine along with a Consular Office to cater for unmet needs of Australians with Ukranian links as well as local people and institutions that need to engage with Australia. The Ukranian disapora in Australia like the Macedonian diaspora expect more support and informed debate in Canberra.
Posted by Macedonian advocacy, Wednesday, 12 March 2014 3:45:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
if Crimea is wrested from Ukraine, what's next?
Estonia, with 40% of its population Russian: will they be next to be 'liberated'?

or Gibraltar, maybe Spain will feel emboldened?

and maybe Argentina will liberate las Malvinas?

and maybe Quebec will secede from Canada and 'liberate' other parts of francophone speaking areas while they're at it?

and maybe the Chinese navy occupying the whole of the islands of the South China Sea?

where will this madness end?
Posted by SHRODE, Thursday, 13 March 2014 11:42:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Joe. Calm down.Let us look at the facts. But which facts? The West supported an unconstitutional putsch against an elected government perpetrated, among others, by fascist/neo-nazi storm troopers (Svoboda, Right Sector) guided by US intelligence. The first act of this illegitimate government was to prohibit the Russian language and appoint two billionaire oligarchs – one who runs his business from Switzerland – to be the new governors of the eastern cities of Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk. Fearing persecution, the majority of Russian speakers in Eastern and South Ukraine appealed to Russia for help.
Still examining only facts , if you employ a wider perspective, you arrive at a totally different account to yours. After the Cold War, Russia carried out its side of the bargain and disbanded the Warsaw Pact, but contrary to undertakings given at the time, the US and its allies have since relentlessly expanded NATO up to Russia's borders, incorporating nine former Warsaw Pact states and three former Soviet republics into what is effectively an anti-Russian military alliance in Europe. The European association agreement which provoked the Ukrainian crisis also included clauses to integrate Ukraine into the EU defence structure. With national security threatened by encirclement, Russia intervened to protect the Black Sea fleet.
Joe, as for your references to Spain and the British Empire , that is empty rhetoric. Shrode throws red herrings, not arguments.
Joe, my sympathy is with the Ukrainians and Russians who suffer corruption and the greed of oligarchs
Posted by Leslie, Thursday, 13 March 2014 12:28:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Also Putin is ahead in the PR soft power struggle over Crimea.

Noting Putin looks like our own Abbott - unfortunately.

Only difference being Putin has never been known to smile while our own Abbott fakes it.

Poyda
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 13 March 2014 12:48:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
One point that is overlooked in the debate over the ousting of the Yanukovych Government is its total incompetence. Blatant corruption, cronyism and just plain ignorance was driving the country into the ground, and when Yanukovych looked like he was turning away from the EU, which for many Ukrainians represented the only hope of a path from disaster, the people said enough. The same pattern was followed in Egypt; Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood simply did not have the skills to run the country and they had to go before the damage they did became irreparable. Those who complain about the overthrow of democratically elected governments are using western standards of checks and balances which simply do not exist in countries which are still coming to grips with the democratic experiment.
Posted by Graham Cooke, Thursday, 13 March 2014 1:46:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
We all got sucked into Bosnia, the UN, the ethnic cleansing and behind it all was the small but very rich reserves of Iridium, & Platinum up in them thar hills near the borders back and beyond by Slovenia.

Not that the big boys. IBM, Raytheon and not forgetting Nokia, Siemens and the crew were backing the players to get control. Pity there weren't the same elements to be found in the hills of Syria...maybe the Assad regime would be long gone from there now.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Thursday, 13 March 2014 6:02:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Graham. Your plausible interpretation is conclusive evidence of the point I was trying to establish. Your facts do not include the planning and massive intervention by Poland, US and other “democracies”. QED.
Posted by Leslie, Friday, 14 March 2014 12:15:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
And Graham , by the by, while I find Morsi as detestable as Yanukovych, you inadvertently prove my point again by referring to “the same pattern”, which is true only if you include the outside interference of Qatar and Saudi Arabia. QED.
Posted by Leslie, Friday, 14 March 2014 12:35:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
For non Latin speakers the ugly acronym "QED" meaning Quantum Electro Dynamics, of course :)
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 14 March 2014 3:54:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
No, Plantagenet, it means "quod erat demonstrandum" . But however-that –might –be, I continue to maintain that the people of Ukraine and Russia suffer the depredations of corruption and the greed of oligarchs, and now a crisis from outside interference with a rekindling of the Cold War by NATO- Vlad the Hammer is only reacting.
Posted by Leslie, Saturday, 15 March 2014 11:41:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Leslie, currently in Poland working on stories about that country's relationship with Ukraine and its growing importance within the EU. Hope to get something to OLO in the near future.
Posted by Graham Cooke, Saturday, 15 March 2014 3:04:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Graham.I hope you will be able to reveal the role of Poland. The EU Eastern Partnership was initiated in December 2008 by Carl Bildt and Radek Sikorski, the foreign ministers of Sweden and Poland, in the wake of Georgia's military showdown with Russia in South Ossetia. The Eastern Partnership targeted six countries that were formerly republics within the Soviet Union.They were not to be invited to full EU membership, but drawn into the EU through so-called Association Agreements, each one centred on a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement (DCFTA). The prime target of the effort was Ukraine.
Posted by Leslie, Sunday, 16 March 2014 8:23:45 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy