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The Forum > Article Comments > No end to soaring electricity prices > Comments

No end to soaring electricity prices : Comments

By Brendan Pearson, published 20/2/2014

As the number of closures in the manufacturing and minerals-processing sector grows, it is worth reflecting on how and why the repeated warnings from these sectors about the debilitating impact of steadily higher energy costs were ignored.

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New nuclear cannot compete with already built coal fired power stations in the absence of serious emissions limits. With the manufacturing downturn there will be an oversupply of cheap coal fired electricity. If both the carbon tax and the RET go it will be hard for other generation sources to get a look in. That will the case be until those coal stations need replacing, some not until the 2030s.

I doubt if Direct Action will achieve much except squabbling. If the emissions reduction target was 15% for the years 2000-2020 not a weak 5% then things could move along. Everything but coal (unless you believe in CCS) would have a role to play i.e. gas , renewables, planned nuclear, conservation.
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 20 February 2014 7:30:35 AM
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I love the irony of this piece.

Quote
There is a tombstone in an English churchyard with the following six word epitaph. "I told you I was sick."
End quote

This is exactly what will be written on the tombstone of the Earth if we don't start accepting the science, that adding vast amounts of carbon to the atmosphere is stuffing up the climate.

Other wise the article is just a piece of unmitigated lobbying laced with spin.
Posted by warmair, Thursday, 20 February 2014 8:34:17 AM
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A year ago I plotted the price paid by the grid operator for electricity from NSW fossil fuel generators. The increase over fifteen years was about 1.6% per annum compound and for the last year the cost was about 5c per Kwh.

The capital payback cost per Kwh for renewables according the author of Thorium, Energy Cheaper than Coal, Dr Robert Hargraves, is about 20c. So the 20% imposition on power companies to include 20% of renewables into their mix adds 3-4cents per Kwh to every power bill.

The gold plating of the grid is a completely misleading argument. Extension or improvement to the grid is a capital expense and should be charged to the consumers over the life of the equipment.

My neighbour has a mass of solar panels and receives 66c per Kwh for power fed back to the grid. So their power bill is negative and they pay nothing for their use of the grid as a backup during cloudy weather.

Much of the extra charge is due to the nonsense idea of privatisation. How really is it possible to have competition when there is inly one service into each consumer's property.
Posted by Foyle, Thursday, 20 February 2014 8:50:28 AM
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The article is complete rubbish. For the key to the declining industrial base take a peek at Australian productivity growth. It's been in the toilet for 15 years. This is starting to hurt. Your failing because the lack of investment has allowed competitors to get a foot in the door.
Posted by Croc099, Thursday, 20 February 2014 9:59:54 AM
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Foyle
most of what you wrote is right as far as it goes, but overall its quite wrong..

Renewables in Aus have always been seen as an add-on to conventional networks and they have what is known as capacity factors.. PVs, for example, have a capacity factor of 18 per cent and, to cut a long story short, that means they replace very little conventional plant .. when you see cost comparisons they are usually comparing cost per output and not the whole cost of running networks which is a different matter entirely.

PVs have been built on roof tops solely because of those great deals your neighbour gets which is (or was)legislated. If distributors were left to themselves they would not look sideways at PVs or wind, at least on any scale. They are too much trouble to have on a network. They are used because the government has passed laws..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Thursday, 20 February 2014 12:30:58 PM
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'I love the irony of this piece.

Quote
There is a tombstone in an English churchyard with the following six word epitaph. "I told you I was sick."
End quote

This is exactly what will be written on the tombstone of the Earth if we don't start accepting the science, that adding vast amounts of carbon to the atmosphere is stuffing up the climate.'

and what would be added to the epitaph

'but unfortunately we treated you for your mental fever instead of addressing your cold.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 20 February 2014 1:02:14 PM
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Professor Quiggin, in a report released today:

“My research comprehensively finds that the free-market based reform process in energy has been a failure.”

Of that the residents of Victoria and South Australia should be in no doubt. All we got from privitisation was junk mail and high prices
Posted by drgal1, Thursday, 20 February 2014 1:18:47 PM
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I keep looking at my electricity bills here in Melbourne and then doing back of the envelope calculations on alternatives. A solar PV or solar thermal are starting to look like an attractive investment with a potential for an internal rate of return around 5-10% Certainly not an investment or commercial level return but more than enough to cut my bills by a very significant amount. Oh and that's not counting any form of government rebates

Put the electricity price up a little more and the ordinary customers might just rush for the exits and look at the bleating and demand for stopping it that will then occur from all the industry players. Just like the super industry and it's financial fiends (sorry planners) in relation to SMSF's.

DKit
Posted by dkit, Thursday, 20 February 2014 1:30:43 PM
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cheap gas would be available if a portion of resources were reserved for domestic use, does the Mineral Council of Australia support this or do their members compel them to argue against reserving a portion of reserves for domestic market
Posted by SLASHER1, Thursday, 20 February 2014 2:10:50 PM
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Curmudgeon,
I cannot see where our views are far different.

Solar panels have a conversion factor of about the percentage you quote but they are virtually offline ten to fourteen hours per day (summer to winter) on even sunny days and even on those days only produce at peak capacity for five or so hours.

Wind farms can shut down because there is no wind or because it is too windy. Having thermal plant on standby is inefficient and the cost of that inefficiency should be charged against the farms.
While thermal power has pollution effects renewables have far higher real costs.

The book by Robert Hargraves advocates prompt research and development of Thorium based nuclear. Mainly China and India are undertaking that research but the USA could have a flying start as they operated an early model of such a unit for years in the sixties.

Waste products are not a problem for this type of reactor. Even for uranium reactors the waste problem is overstated. Most of the waste could be mixed with the mine-site overburden and put back in the mine pit. The resultant radiation need be no higher that the radiation that led to the discovery of the uranium in the first place.
Posted by Foyle, Thursday, 20 February 2014 2:10:58 PM
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Solar has had a huge impact on the grid. During the heatwave across vic and SA peak demand for power generation shifted five hours.
Someone said how can you have competition when you only have one power line into your house. There are many retailers of electricity, in vic and it's a matter of who you want to bye electricity from. The power is bought from the electricity pool at a market price, then on-sold to consumers at a retail price. You have Retailers ,Generators, and service providers. That's why you only need one connection.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 20 February 2014 2:28:51 PM
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Foyle - okay, I seem to have misread your post.. my apologies..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Thursday, 20 February 2014 3:57:23 PM
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FOYLE/FOIBLE/QUOTE,,..<<Wind farms can shut down because there is no wind or because it is too windy.>>

SORRY..BUT THIS IS WRONG[THEY FREEZE UP]..thus when no wind..they actualy draw power

plus in uk recently..many are actually payed..not to produce
[WIND IS FINE..in the middle of nowhere[or on a house/but even there they fail HUGELY..

<<..Having thermal plant on standby is inefficient and the cost of that inefficiency should be charged against the farms.>.

everything hAS A COST..but coal makes steam
steam can be stored in a heat sink.

ok they take a HALF HOur to get to peak efficiency
BUT WE DUN IT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS..cause it WORKS

ps anyone else niting that off peak dont gO OFF FOR AT LEAST THE LAST WEEK

THEY MUST NEED THE EXTRTA CHARGES A REAL LOT

PS..i was a low power user..when they were giving away solar[with the 60 cent buyback]..that is criminal[colluded criminALITY.

TODAY THEY GET 6 CENTS..the imbalance alone is criminal

<<..While thermal power has pollution effects
renewables have far higher real costs.>>

YEP..YOO TRUE BLUE*
renewables folly has doubled the cost..of cheaper power[so far]
via the grand enron sceme..[their criminality went global

they never had a judgment 'day'
911..[or rather the proof held in building 7..just blew away.

tHAT TREASON HAS SINCE BEEN COMPOUNDED ADD INFINITUM
http://republicbroadcasting.org/Stang/index.php?cmd=archives.month&ProgramID=77&year=14&month=2&backURL=index.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives.getyear%2526ProgramID%253D77%26year%3D14%26backURL%3Dindex.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives
http://rss.infowars.com/20140219_Wed_Alex.mp3
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 20 February 2014 4:34:00 PM
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The price on carbon is not the cause of rising electricity prices, but rather privatization and gold plating. I'm very much in favor of real competition, private enterprise and entrepreneurs.
However, that doesn't include cash cow essential services, and holding captive audiences to ransom. Nor does it include exponentially expanding foreign debt, or debt instruments used to privatize various essential services and then ask the endlessly long suffering consumer to fund all the debt servicing costs; as well as provide a hitherto unnecessary dividend for so-called offshore investors.
Privatization provides a once only revenue stream, that is then used to balance the budget, simply because we don't have the nouse or testicular fortitude, to close all the many thousands of tax loopholes and avoidance. The loss of this former revenue simply compounds the structural deficit, given former reliable earnings are removed from inland revenue, by very shortsighted ideologues, unable to think beyond the very next election cycle.
Our railways stopped earning significant income for the nation, because we wouldn't harmonize and modernize.
Imagine if we had beaten the Japanese to install rapid rail, along a standard gauge, our system would not only have paid for itself several times over, but fostered many brand new export industries, in a land held back by the tyranny of distance and the often onerous cost of transport.
Imagine if we'd invested in cheaper than coal thorium reactors in the fifties when they were invented? We'd still have a credible manufacturing base. I mean aluminium is little more than congealed electricity, and we invented the direct reduction method for making steel!
Science and maths is not only missing in our schools, but far more importantly, from our collective parliaments as well!
What we need are visionaries, and what we have got, it would seem, are self serving ideologues, and their seemingly endless cronyism? Little wonder, there's no end to soaring electricity prices!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 20 February 2014 4:34:39 PM
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The privatisation of essential services were sold to us by politicians who claim to act in the interests of the public as to delivering improved efficiency, cost effectiveness and cheaper prices.

It has now been shown that these politicians are liars.

Economists sell the great lie, that competition reduces prices. Victoria is an example where competition increases prices.

It is not in the best interests of a private electrical company to reduce consumption or prices, after all the share holder is number one, not the consumer.

I cannot help but wonder how many of our ex politicians, or serving politicians have shares in these companies.
Posted by Wolly B, Thursday, 20 February 2014 8:17:32 PM
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wooly B 70% of households in vic have not switched their retailer.
The big conglomerates are charging as much as 40 cents or more.
The fact is you can get power for 23 cents / kWh Peak and 16 cents / kWh of peak. So it pays to change. You need to look around.
Posted by 579, Friday, 21 February 2014 7:40:26 AM
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