The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Debunking claims that Australia is a high-tax country > Comments

Debunking claims that Australia is a high-tax country : Comments

By Andrew Leigh, published 7/2/2014

As a recent International Monetary Fund report noted, Australia engaged in 'fiscal profligacy' between 2003 and 2007: failing to invest the tax revenue from the first phase of the mining boom into productive infrastructure.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
It is still too early to decide whether the Abbott govt will be successful or a failure.

Times are tough.

But, please, do not pretend Labor was masterful about addressing Australia's economic future
Posted by Chris Lewis, Friday, 7 February 2014 7:46:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Andrew,

I sense the thrust of your article is that the evil LNP are going to make savage cuts to spending, that we should start to panic about now and that the basis for these cuts is plain wrong.

This may go down well in the Canberra Times as part of the get Abbott campaign but it may be a tad too soon for the electorates.

Your real problem is that those who voted for the LNP are prepared to give them time to produce some results. There is still a high degree of trust, they know cuts are coming and why they are needed.

By the time the 2016 election comes around there is an expectation that the LNP will have a number of significant ticks against policy deliveries. If not I guess we will vote them out.

I’m sure you are acutely aware of this and if this article is an indicator of your case, you have no answer and are doomed to a long time in the political wilderness.

Preaching to your converted is utterly futile, but I like it.

I like it because this is how you got into opposition in the first place. If you continue to promote the line that it is all the LNP’s fault when their supporters know full well they are trying to fix the mess you left behind, you are in pursuit of that which is contrary to self interest, keep up the good work.
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 7 February 2014 8:57:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Comparisons are unnecessary.

Australians pay far more tax than they ought to. Taxes pay for far too many completely unnecessary government functions, expenditures and government waste. Most of that waste relates to completely unnecessary legislation regulating and controlling Australians' lives.

The ALP and Greens will always need more taxes paid rather than less, and will always make comparisons, especially with those countries that also have high taxing, and excessively generous social engineering policies.

The ALP cannot help itself from seeking higher taxes, because most of its MP's have no idea what it is to take the risks, borrow the capital, work long hours to establish and run businesses, big and small. They can only understand what it's like to demand high wages and conditions from employers, but never know what it's like, including Economics Professors, to generate revenue, market products and services, pay excessively generous wages and conditions all year round, no matter the prevailing economic conditions (often forced on everyone by poor government decision-making, such as the GFC) or to make a profit. They believe instead in a completely designed and regulated market that seeks to reduce or eliminate risk. Assessing and taking on risk is vital to activity and life.

Far better targeted expenditures of government tax revenues would lead, under this Federal Government at least, to greater expenditures on important and long overdue productive infrastructure. The Rudd/Gillard Governments proved how easy it was, and how immature and naive they were, in spending a surplus and borrowing to pay for unnecessary unproductive capital infrastructure works, and recurrent expenditures not just now, but long into the future. It is only right that there is a culling of unnecessary legislation and regulations, and for government to do what it takes to reduce the tax liabilities of Australians, so that they, and they alone, can decide how best to use the money that they earn, either as income or as company revenues.
Posted by Derek's@Booroobin, Friday, 7 February 2014 9:01:00 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What AL forgets to mention is that during this time, government spending as a % of GDP was at an all time high.

No country has ever taxed itself to prosperity.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 7 February 2014 9:31:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The author is an apologist for the depredations of Labor, and asserts that we are a low tax country.

I will look elsewhere for constructive comment, as it is not on offer from this fellow.
Posted by Leo Lane, Friday, 7 February 2014 9:59:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Congratulations Andrew on having the courage to enter the pages of OLO where the comments generally reflect the same degree of economic literacy as Costello attributes to Abbott.

A recent IMF survey found that between 2003 and 2007 the Australian government squandered the fruits of the mining boom by failing to invest in infrastructure. Surprise surprise, but who was the government in 2003-2007? None other than the LNP coalition whose supporters were more than happy to accept the middle class largesse distributed by Howard/Costello, but now blame the ALP for all the ills that currently befall us.

Hockey now talks about the "end of entitlement" but as Crikey pointed out earlier in the week there are significant exceptions to the promised belt tightening. Again to no-one's surprise they just happen to be the same groups that are the Coalition's strong supporters.

It is not just a question of how much tax is collected as a percentage of GDP but how those taxes are spent. There is nothing in the record of any government over the past 18 years to inspire confidence that that fundamental principle has been learnt.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 7 February 2014 10:32:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
JON,

There was also a study by the UN that fingered the Syrian rebels for using nerve gas.

There are always idiots in organisations that will put out stupid reports.

Notably at this time there were surpluses, full employment, and government infrastructure projects would have pushed up inflation and interest rates.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 7 February 2014 12:00:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
James O'Neill "It is not just a question of how much tax is collected as a percentage of GDP but how those taxes are spent. There is nothing in the record of any government over the past 18 years to inspire confidence that that fundamental principle has been learnt."

The present government as well as the previous Labor mob seem to be hell bent on handing back a lot of taxes in order to bribe the gullible electorate. If we are to survive into the future, we need to be paying a considerably larger amount into the government's coffers to pay for the multitude of services we need. Hockey is right to be targeting government waste, but he needs to be careful that he doesn't become too zealous. His Liberal colleagues also need to be mindful of the power that the supermarket giants wield in the food supply chain lest they force all the farmers off the land with their predatory pricing tactics. The Nats may well turn upon their masters if some sort of help is not given to companies like SPC-Ardmona or the drought affected hinterlands.

At the same time, the great unwashed out there needs to realise that they can no longer afford (actually never could afford) the standard of living to which they aspire and they should be paying higher personal income taxes.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Friday, 7 February 2014 1:15:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
How many times do we have to repeat the basic principles of Australian democracy, which are ignored at politicians' peril.

These four principles apply to all governments and are:

1. The government is the enemy of the people.

2. No taxation with or without representation, with any deficiency in government finances being made up from the sale of politicians' assets.

3. No matter whom you vote for, a politician is always elected.

4. Always vote NO at referendums.
Posted by plerdsus, Friday, 7 February 2014 5:31:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Those who have commented do not seem to accept that, for the economy to grow in population and in economic size, more money is needed most years. That money can only be introduced into the economy by spending by the currency controller. In Australia that is the Federal Government.

If that government consistently runs a surplus the citizens and companies in the private sector are forced to borrow temporary money created by the banks. Sooner or later the private sector runs out of borrowing capacity and a downturn occurs as the private sector members struggle to rebalance their individual budgets.

In November last, a fiscal space diagram was shown as a slide in a presentation by Dr Stephanie Kelton at a meeting of the Fields Institute, Toronto, Canada. For the whole of the time Howard managed the Australian economy he did so at least marginally within the unsustainable area of that fiscal space diagram. So did many other neo-liberal governments so the GFC was bound to occur.

The Federal Government's principle task should be to ensure that there is a fulltime job available for anyone capable of working at such a job. The government has the ability to pay the account for anything it purchases to achieve that aim be that labour or materials. The government spends first and then monitors the economy to see that boom times are not making it necessary to tax more its created money out of existence.

When your employer deducts tax from your wage you build up a credit with the Tax Department. That credit is only government IOUs. When your tax return is assessed the balance returns to zero and you get any surplus as a cheque (or a credit to your bank account). What value do IOUs have to the entity who created them? None!

All of Hockey's comments on the government running out of money is nonsense. The government ability to create IOUs is only limited by what is for sale in exchange for those IOUS and whether there is excess demand of goods and services in the economy.
Posted by Foyle, Friday, 7 February 2014 5:31:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If our Govt created the money to = growth + inflation, our taxes would decrease by more than $10,000 for every working person.

Growth and inflation should not be expressed as debt by the private banking system.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 7 February 2014 6:41:51 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Let's keep in mind this article is coming from a person who co-authored 'research' suggesting the ABC is Rightwing.

Leigh's dishonest and deceitful suggestion Australia is low taxed is disgraceful. OECD stats are always trotted out to suggest this garbage neglecting to mention high taxed Europe is over-weighted in the results.

Lets also not forget Leigh ran on a platform supporting more APS staff.

He's a disgrace.
Posted by jc2, Saturday, 8 February 2014 12:50:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yep,we are paying way too much tax. $1.5 trillion economy has on average growth of 3% + inflation of 3%.The money supply grows by 6%, but the catch is that our Govt no longer creates any of this new money via Govt Banks.

$90 billion pa is added to our economy mostly as private and Govt debt. This is why our balance of payments continues to grow even though our exports are greater than imports.

Since our inflation gets created as debt, this negates any benefits of growth. It means that the harder we all work the more debt we incur and thus the more taxes we pay.

When was the last time we had a huge development of infrastructure? The Sydney Harbour Bridge during the 1930's Depression and we had to borrow from the poms to do that. The Snowy Mts scheme in the 1950's.
All our new major roads are tolled private ones.

We are the can't do country and most of us don't give a stuff.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 9 February 2014 10:19:46 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16000#277210
So Leo what facts in the article are wrong?
Posted by bondi_tram, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 10:46:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy