AJ Philips,

Sorry, but I cannot express more clearly, that belief in SOMETHING beyond the physical and mental comes BEFORE the belief in a “personal” GOD of Christianity, Judaism or Islam: You can believe the former without believing in the latter but not the other way around.

I did not write a defence of anything only attempted to clarify the terminology. I was not rebutting you but the concept of “objective evidence” based on a standard definition of evidence showing that evidence makes sense only within a given context, a set of facts, concepts and their meaning, that ALL INVOLVED A PRIORI AGREE UPON. In trivial everyday situations “all involved” mostly means everybody but this is impossible when asking for evidence for things described in the preceding paragraph.

I quoted Hawkins-Mlodinow (scientists not philosophers) who infer that there is no “objective evidence” even for the existence of Cosmos, the physical world, although ALL of us believe in it. So you can hardly expect an "objective evidence" for the existence of the divine that SOME of us believe in.

I do not know what apologetics you are/were reading, it is not my stuff. In my opinion, we all face “life equations” to which we seek our personal solution. The trivial, materialist solution (more or less informed by science) is available to all of us and many are satisfied with it (or worse, succumb to a fanatical ideology parasiting on religion or science).

However, some of us yearn for more, not in order to clash with the materialist life solution (hence my dislike of apologetics) but to enhance, complete or “lift" it on all levels, emotional, rational and moral.

Indeed, George.

>>The Bible is about what God said, did, etc, no arguments for His existence. That is tacitly assumed.<<

'Til next time

Old Testament Armed Forces
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2014/02/49899-philip-giraldi-old-testament-armed-forces/

Religious zealotry runs rampant in the U.S. military, and among those wishing to deploy it.
http://www.redressonline.com/2014/02/israeli-secret-service-mossad-hires-rabbi-to-advise-it-on-tactics-and-operations/
There is a cliché about soldiers, atheism, and fox holes which is probably as true or untrue as most clichés. That the United States military appears to be increasingly a professional force that has few links to the general population is by itself disturbing. That it also might be developing a warrior class ethos that includes a certain kind of evangelical religiosity as a key element only serves to increase the distance between soldiers and most civilians, apart from the constitutional issues that it raises

http://investmentwatchblog.com/billionaire-george-soros-doubles-his-bet-that-the-market-is-heading-for-a-crash/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/amazing-photos-of-mexican-drug-lords-home-and-23-billion-in-cash/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/israel-palestine-shifting-paradigms-single-state/

http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-death-of-8-world-bankers-is-mysteriously-sinister/

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/expert-warns-of-hyperinflation-the-american-way-of-life-will-be-destroyed_02172014

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/02/17/study-reveals-unavoidable-danger-hpv-vaccines/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-17/israeli-minister-slams-boycotts-as-new-form-of-anti-semitism-.html?cmpid=yhoo

welcome to the nutty yahoos end times..
its worth recalling..you shall hear..of..etc

"He who controls the present, controls the past.
He who controls the past, controls the future." -- George Orwell

0K PERICULES THANkS..anyhow.

not sure if any of you know what emp means
electro/magnetic/pulse..*..[*}

[that seems the grand scheme..of the demons..RUNNING THE DEMONIC-MOCKERY/..CALLED DEMOCRACY..back into the dusts..from which our works created it]

then*
blame IT ON..'GOD'.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/this-is-a-monster-sunspot-now-larger-than-jupiter-continues-to-unleash-solar-flares.html

thing is..if we ignore madmen
we yet cant avoid..the fruits of their collective insanity
ARE WE NOT GREATER COLLECTIVELY..more..THAN INDIVIDUALLY..

[INDEED..co-creators]

IN-DEED..who IS worse..those who dont think..or those who do..

dont BE ignoring..what we think..we validate..
IF GOD EXISTS..then why do..psychopaths..have no conscience..[BECAUSETHATS WHAT THEY WANT US TO THINK..if gods 'judge'..then we can judge...too.

FACT IS either..you know god DONE IT..[LIFE/CREATION/EVOLUTION]
OR YOU THINK SCIENCE.MAN/YOU.. DID IT..

but please ask them to prove it.
[CAUSE PSYCHOPATHS DONT CARE...WHAT/WHO DONE IT..
ONLY THAT THEY RUN IT...AND CAN DESTROY IT]..JUST TO MINIMIZE GOD=GOOD

ITS REVEALING
THAT JESUS CAME TO HIS OWN/AND THAT..THEY KNEW him not...[why?]..
he wasnt..what they have been conned..TO BELIEVE..WAS COMING...THUS REJECTED..him..and his god.

IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHATS COMING..you already missed it
[two thirds will die..if these times are not cut short]..

no thats not found IN ANY ATHEIST TEXT..nor re/the mark of the beast...[nor knowing 'them/by their works

but heck who follows FAIRY TAILS.

not the mocking demons..[of course not]
no supreem god..=..no supplicate bad.

i see nuthin.

George,

You may have alluded to this, but I don’t think you said it explicitly…

<<Sorry, but I cannot express more clearly, that belief in SOMETHING beyond the physical and mental comes BEFORE the belief in a “personal” GOD of Christianity, Judaism or Islam: You can believe the former without believing in the latter but not the other way around.>>

Though it doesn’t always come before (and never after, obviously). In fact, from my observations, sensing the Something is usually skipped and those who only believe in the Something rarely ever progress to a specific theology. Those who will always skip the assumption of “Something” are those who are indoctrinated as children. I, for example, did not decide that there was Something else out there beyond the physical and mental, and then narrow it down to Christianity or assume that Christianity was that Something’s way of speaking to my culture. What Child brought up in a religious household would have the chance to? No, I was told from a very early age what to believe and how to believe it.

That being said…

<<I was not rebutting you but the concept of “objective evidence” based on a standard definition of evidence showing that evidence makes sense only within a given context, a set of facts, concepts and their meaning, that ALL INVOLVED A PRIORI AGREE UPON. In trivial everyday situations “all involved” mostly means everybody but this is impossible when asking for evidence for things described in the preceding paragraph.>>

You try fit religious belief into this ‘a priori’ category so that it may sidestep reason and hide in a place in which the need for a rational justification would be considered absurd. But your claim that religious belief is an a priori presupposition relies on the assumption that there are but two types of people in this world: those who are born to sense that there is Something beyond the physical and mental, and those who are born to sense that the physical world is all that exists. And that both positions are equally valid default positions.

Continued…

…Continued

There is, in fact, only one default position because we all start with no assumptions regarding any of this. Our life experiences (and possibly our DNA to a certain extent too) influence our feelings on whether or not there is that Something out there. So this first step that you speak of (that I think the vast majority of people either skip, or don’t tie to religion at all (e.g. New Age mystics)) is not an a priori presupposition. It is an assumption based on experience (both personal and upbringing) and so, by the way, is the assertion that physical reality is all that exists. Neither position is a priori and both require justification. However, the materialist is naturally going to have an easier time rationally justifying their position.

This postmodernist thinking in classifying the assertion that there must be Something else beyond the physical and mental as a priori is nothing more than an attempt to sidestep rationally justifying the assumption.