The gap is ever widening between reality and the author.

This article is typical of what we have come to expect from John Pilger. It's little more than a grab-bag of every rumour and half-truth he could dig up to sandbag the "progressives" long held pet hypothesis that Oz is an apartheid nation.

Tellingly, he makes nary a mention of separate Aboriginal territories, or special places reserved at uni or in the job market on the basis of race, or a plan to enshrine special racial "recognition" (sic) in the constitution--all and any of which, when applied in pre-Mandela South Africa or Israel have had the "progressives" screaming and frothing at the mouth.

One wonders why anyone outside of "progressive" circles ever bothers to give Pilger the time of day.

"Unlike the US, Canada and New Zealand, which have made treaties with their first people, Australia has offered gestures often wrapped in the law."

Anyone who knows anything about the history of the U.S. knows that the Americans slaughtered most of the Red Indians and broke most of the treaties they signed with them. Around the same time, the Americans were into slavery in a big way!

Holding Americans up as symbols of colonial righteousness is ridiculous, John!

Hi John,

I have two suggestions for your consideration. The first is that you should come “home” a little more often. That way you might enjoy a break from your pseudo-world of Unicorns and other confected misrepresentations.

Secondly, you might get your editor to post you back to South Africa. Then you might observe that the apartheid you so fervently hated is alive and well. The only difference for black South Africans is that there is no longer a political apartheid, just the original socio-economic apartheid that people like you failed to either see or do anything about.

You and your ilk are to be congratulated for maintaining South Africa’s status quo. What you sought to avoid, you created.

Sleep well.

If any of think Pilger will read any of you posts you've got rocks in your head. He's on of those Academics who loads a gun, places it where it can be found, walks away & waits for people to fire it.

Others of the same ilk. Wakim, Costello & Flannery. None of 'em worth what left on toilet paper after you used it.

I can only echo Jayb's words. I witness dysfubction due to lack of motivation on an hourly basis.
I recall hearing "All we want is an apology". Well, an apology has been made, now what ?
Isn't it high time some people apologise for their lack of motivation ?

more money more money more money. will fix the molested girls, will fix thye chronic alcholol and drug use, will fix the porn addiction, just more money. Maybe another Gonski. More money more money and don't ever raise taxes.

<<Pilger...He's one of those Academics>>

LOL --fair go.

I don't think Pilger could be called an academic by any stretch of the imagination!

This article is indeed based on what I have
come to expect from John Pilger. Controversial -
yes. Accurate and factual - yes. Heart-grabbing -
yes. Troubling - oh yes.

However, I am optimistic that things will improve
in Australia. However in order to achieve improvement
the country will require genuine leadership (local
and federal) and a willingness to really confront
both the difficulties and opportunities that our
Indigenous people face. My feeling is that we are
uniqiely placed in Austsralia to be able to do
precisely that.

This bloke really is like a mouse on a treadmill.

He long since exhausted anything he had to say, but is stuck on that treadmill, & just doesn't know how to get off.

Perhaps he should have read all the instructions before he started. Now he is simply pitiful.

Foxy: However in order to achieve improvement the country will require genuine leadership (local and federal) and a willingness to really confront both the difficulties and opportunities that our Indigenous people face.

Which particular group of Indigenous people are you talking about. Bushies, Reservation, Townies or City Indigenous. They all have different needs.

Forget the City's & Townies as they have the same opportunities as everyone else. They all get free School Books, free Taxi's to School, Rent paid if they've spent all their Dole on Goonies, Plus getting paid to send their kids to school. Free Medical. If you're behind in your car payments Aboriginal & Island Affairs will fix that up as well. Free bus & accommodation from the Reservation & back if they have to travel to get Medical Services, etc.

I can hear now, "You don't know that." & I hate that saying, just because the person saying that doesn't know or does know but doesn't want to admit it. Well, yes I do know. I have Aboriginal mates in the business.

Dear Jayb,

Read Mr Pilger's article.
I believe he's not speaking of urban Indigenous
People - but the communities in the outback.

Foxy: I believe he's not speaking of urban Indigenous People - but the communities in the outback.

Ok, so Bushies & those on Reservations. Well, Yes I agree. Lets start with Courses on; Basic Hygene, How to keep you House & Yard tidy, Basic Home Maintainence, & a few others.

Then;

The code of behaviour for Aboriginal People

“This Code of Behaviour contains a list of expectations about how you will behave at all times. It does not contain all your rights and duties under Australian law. If you are found to have breached the Code of Behaviour, you could have your income support reduced,

• You must not disobey any Australian laws including Australian road laws; you must cooperate with all lawful instructions given to you by police and other government officials;

• You must not make sexual contact with another person without that person’s consent, regardless of their age; you must never make sexual contact with someone under the age of consent;

• You must not take part in, or get involved in any kind of criminal behaviour in Australia, including violence against any person, including your family or government officials; deliberately damage property; give false identity documents or lie to a government official;

• You must not harass, intimidate or bully any other person or group of people or engage in any antisocial or disruptive activities that are inconsiderate, disrespectful or threaten the peaceful enjoyment of other members of the community;

• You must not refuse to comply with any health undertaking provided by the Department of Health or direction issued by the Chief Medical Officer to undertake treatment for a health condition for public health purposes;

• You must co-operate with all reasonable requests from the department to attend interviews.

• I, __________[name to be written]_______ ______________________________________ agree to abide by this Code of Behaviour

I'm really rather tired of John's par for the course rant. There is only one hand that raises the glass time and again. Ditto glue and petrol sniffing, and other substance abuse problems, or the level of domestic violence or child abuse.
If John had his way, children routinely abused by drunken or doped to the gills parents, would be left to suffer whatever fate awaits them.
There is not a black way, nor a white way, just a right way and people owning their own behavior!
And wouldn't that make a pleasant change from all the pointless belly aching!
Little wonder the victim mentality is alive and well in some indigenous communities? With shite stirrers just like John stirring and fanning the flames?
I don't know how many billions have been thrown at the Aboriginal community and or, their so-called problems, or how many billions has been patently misappropriated or quite grossly mismanaged by their own elites, over many decades?
It's high time that the govt stepped in and simply tied all welfare and progress grants, to particular outcomes!
And if that means direct funding models that isolates the so called control freak elites, then that is exactly what must happen. No ifs, buts or maybes.
There will come a day, when all aboriginal kids attend school and obtain high enough grades to go on and benefit from a university education.
These are the future leaders we need to cultivate and patronize! Not professional belly aches trying to humbug almost everyone, for less than objective or best possible outcomes.
The pages of history can never ever be erased!
Compensation? How about we simply limit that to the people who caused the problems, rather than second or third generations, digging deep to try and alleviate, many of the current self created miseries!
We need more totally sober people on the ground and taking charge, it would be preferable if those same people we also members of their own community, rather than white hating reverse racists? Or political activists like John, patently stirring, to serve their own self serving agenda?
Rhrosty.

In 2012, 5,824 Indigenous people are recorded as commencing university study. Data is collected from universities, which rely on people ticking the right box, and are usually 15-20 % below actual commencements. No matter, let's run with 5,824. And 12,632 enrolments. And 1742 graduations.

The number of Indigenous people turning 24 (the average age of commencing university) was around 12,000. So the equivalent of 48 % of an age-group commenced uni study. some of those were second-timers, people returning to study, some were enrolling in post-graduate courses. But either way, let's say that the equivalent of 40 % of an Indigenous age-group commenced uni study for the first time.

Gosh, that does seem close the Gillard's target for 2020 ?

But will you hear a word of this from rumour-mongers like Pilger ? Not in our life-times.

A fuller database, going back to 1989, can be found on my web-site:

www.firstsources.info

under 'Twenty-first century data'. Commencements and graduations are rising by an average of 7 % p.a. But overwhelmingly of urban people. Out in the self-imposed apartheid 'homelands', the participation rate is understandably abysmal, overwhelmingly female. People can move to where such opportunities are available if they have good enough English - all Australian university courses are in English - but, thanks to neo-colonialists, English is not used, out in the 'homelands'.

Yes, let's get rid of apartheid in Australia - let's encourage people to move to towns, where their kids can get a decent, English-language, education, English-language jobs, and participate in our English-language economy.

Let's give rumour-mongers like Pilger less to scare their European audiences with. Let's begin with the truth.

Joe

Dear Jayb,

I imagine it's easy for urbanites like ourselves
to judge others by our standards. However, I'm not
sure if I'd be worried about hygiene and proper behaviour
as my first priority, if I didn't have access to the basics
(that we take for granted in the cities), and my kids
were hungry and sick.

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

John Pilger a rumour-mongerer?

Why are you so keen to only speak of the success-stories
of the Indigenous people - the few that do make it -
but the reality of many who are not so fortunate you
brand as "rumours." When was the last time you were amongst
the Indigenous communities in the outback, in towns that
Mr Pilger mentions? He speaks from what he has experienced
and seen and in my book that does not qualify as "rumour,"
but as reality.

Joe Loudmouth,

Hear hear, well said.

Out with Pilger and in with Joe as an OLO article writer.

No way, SPQR, I'm just a bitter old fart,

Foxy/Lexi,

Like any other Australians, I can assess what i hear and see in relation to remote communities. But you're onto something: My point was that, on the whole, Indigenous people are not doing too badly in terms of participation in university education, but that a huge task remained - for the hotshot Indigenous education 'leaders', if they ever thought for a moment about anything but their own careers - in reaching out to people in remote and rural centres, in combatting the bullsh!t about 'learning in one's own language', and not in the common language that is so necessary for everyone. And getting real education from real educators, for a standard school week.

But first, the bigger task would be to persuade people out there that lifelong-welfare is not really an option - it kills. To persuade parents that their kids may not be able to follow in their foot-steps to lifelong-welfare, that their kids may actually need to get educated, and therefore to see the point of schooling. Half-wits and blow-hards like Pilger skim over all that, even if they were aware of it.

My point also was that success at universities is possible for Indigenous people, they've already done it, so the other whingers who implicitly rely on the myth that somehow such education is not for Aboriginal people, that we should be feeling sorry for Indigenous people because it's all so impossible - Black and white whingers -really should crawl back into their holes.

Joe
www.firstsources.info

He speaks from what he has experienced
and seen
Foxy,
I have difficulty in believing this on account of my own experiences. It is my opinion that John Pilger writes what he wants to hear & see.
I'd like to have John Pilger work alongside me for a week & then write about what he heard & saw.

John Pilger, work!

Go wash your mouth out individual.

Foxy: I imagine it's easy for urbanites like ourselves to judge others by our standards.

Urbanites, we are & as such, we, as a society have a acceptable standard of behaviour & hygiene, for Indigenous as well as Whites. I know some Whites fail too. I've seen the Current Affairs programs. Regardless, That sort of Low Standard is abhorrent, you must admit, to everybody.

Even so, there is no excuse for the in the Indigenous Communities Outback to live in the filth that they live in. There is no excuse for the rubbish lying around breading sickness, both inside & outside the houses. There is no excuse for not brushing the Toilet down or cleaning the bath tub or shower recess. There is no excuse for rotting food left on the floor, benches & sinks breading sickness in the children. There is no excuse for not keeping their clothes in decent repair & clean. There is no excuse for the state of repair of the houses that have had every wall punched in. That sort of Low Standard is abhorrent, you must admit, to everybody

They get money given to them, A lot more than White people on the Dole get by way of extras. What do they do with it. Goonies?

Foxy: I'm not sure if I'd be worried about hygiene and proper behaviour as my first priority, if I didn't have access to the basics
(that we take for granted in the cities), and my kids were hungry and sick.

Why are the kids hungry, Foxy? Has it to do with what they spend their money on instead of food for the children?

I've been down there too. Bread & jam for two weeks once, Savaloys, another time. lived in the car for two weeks, lived in a fettlers hut until I got caught, I was living on tomatoes, beans & raw potatoes from the field for a week until my first pay check. I always kept myself, my clothes & my surrounds clean.

Dear jayb.

I don't have the answers by a long shot.

But at a guess - the Australian Indigenous culture
historically is the most primitive in the world.
Other cultures such as the Indians in the Amazon
and some African tribes in Central Africa have a
culture that does not readily advance as do the
European or certain Asian cultures. For example
in today's modern society computers and other advanced
technologies are readily accepted by most educated
people and yet there are many in the older generation
that don't accept that technology. So too with the
Indigenous people - where traditionally their culture
is handed down by the elders they are inclined to
follow the old ways. Historically being nomadic
they walked away from their camps and established new
camp sites. Leaving behind the mess of their previous
inhabitation. With such cultures it will take many
generations to accept the changes in their environment.

Migation since the second World War from Europe brought
many cultures and traditions to this country and it
takes as much as three generations for those traditions
to be abandoned. So what do you expect from a primitive
culture - living in their tribal areas where they are
constantly reminded of their ancestry and where they have
not had the benefits of education and modernity that
the rest of the nation has had. They don't get the education,
there are no jobs, they're unemployed, and they're influenced
by their elders. You can't expect a nomadic people to be
permanently settled and appreciate their surroundings.

Hi Foxy/Lexi,

Culture is one thing, people and their ability to learn from their circumstances is another. Culture is not innate. Culture is what and how you learn about the actual, real, living environment, social, economic, political, around you, and Aboriginal people have been learning amazingly quickly from the earliest days of contact with the outside world.

In South Australia, my adopted state, Aboriginal people were already highly mobile and conversing with each other in a common language, English, by 1845, eight years after contact. People were taking out land leases by the end of the 1840s, and by the 1890s, more than fifty had 160-acre land leases, rent-free, 14-years.

By the 1860s, in the 'settled' areas, a high proportion of Aboriginal kids had been through Mission schools, each teaching a fairly standard curriculum for the times - actually a higher proportion of Aboriginal kids in those areas could read and write than the rural non-Aboriginal kids by 1870 - even after that, since it wasn't compulsory for white farm kids to go to school if they lived a certain distance from a school, Aboriginal kids on Missions would have been far better educated than those poor white kids.

Nowadays, of course, those poor little bastards in remote areas are getting bugger-all education, thanks to well-meaning 'teachers' and the kids' parents, a deadly alliance. God knows what might happen with this new policy against truancy - I suspect that many of those parents will be put on full salaries as something like 'education re-engagement officers' or some such, and nothing much will change. Experts like 'Individual' will be in the position to observe what happens, thank God. Thank you in anticipation, Individual :)

Meanwhile, in the cities, Indigenous people will race away. Those poor deluded b@stards in remote communities, thinking they on a pig's back, on lifelong welfare, will be left further and further behind. And their poor kids will suffer, for yet another sh!t generation.

Cheers :)

Joe

I blame the experts who insist on forcing the system of education onto these kids when all they require to build a healthy mentality is education.
We can not expect the children to learn anything from people who know nothing. Get the teachers through two years national service & then put them in a classroom, not before.
Stop indoctrinating indigenous kids to hate.

individual, "Stop indoctrinating indigenous kids to hate."

Well said, but there is a whole victim industry of academics, bureaucrats and professionals who depend on that to put bread on their table.

Not to mention politicians who do the same but indirectly.

Indy: "Stop indoctrinating indigenous kids to hate."

OTB: Well said, but there is a whole victim industry of academics, bureaucrats and professionals who depend on that to put bread on their table. Not to mention politicians who do the same but indirectly.

I'm glad that some people here are starting to think instead of their using old blinkered vision.

With complex problems there are ideas form many different people that may seem controversial at first but when looked at more closely have merit.

OTB is right with his post above, especially the PC crowd making everything so obtuse everyone is confused.

Foxy: the Australian Indigenous culture historically is the most primitive in the world. etc to,

They may be primitive by our standards but I doubt that anyone of us could survive in some of the extreme terrain Australia has to offer. We judge IQ by an educated Western Standard within our own Society. I really don't think it's fair to judge a Bushman by that Standard. "Think of the reverse situation here."

Now we have the problem of our Academics applying our standard to Primitive People all over the World. I think it's fair to apply that Standard to Urban Indigenous as most have lived in an Urban environment for at least 3 or more generations.

Unfortunately the generation coming up want to regress to bush standards but keep all the benefits of urban living. Most of the Indigenous people I know & have grown up with are fine, have jobs, keep clean houses & speak properly, some have turned into "Burrys" & work the Welfare System, now speak Burry & complain about how badly "Whitey" treats the "Black Feller." They have been brainwashed by indigenous Academics in the various agencies who make a living out of stirring these people up.

More to come. Gotta go.

Jayb,
It's not so much indigenous academics doing all the harm, it is being orchestrated by leftwing do-gooder academics who have no concept of normalcy, decency & integrity in society.
I know of one personally who exploited a couple of indigenous communities by promising them to write "their" history. The end result was a tearing up of old wounds & pontificating on word of mouth injustices. Needless to say both communities are now so far regressed that many of us can not see any hope of regaining their former community spirit.

Indy: It's not so much indigenous academics doing all the harm, it is being orchestrated by left wing do-gooder academics who have no concept of normalcy, decency & integrity in society.

Thanks Indy, I think that's what I was trying to say.

The Urban Indigenous are jumping on the band wagon, making lots of noise & using outback Indigenous & Bush people to get advantages for themselves in the cities.

The Left wing Academics make good money out of stirring the past without citing any improvements. That way the Indigenous Agencies & the Academics make a good living.

"Wilcannia's other distinction is that the Cuban government runs a literacy programme there, teaching young Aboriginal children to read and write. This is what the Cubans are famous for – in the world's poorest countries."

Bwhahaha. The Local Land Council uses a reading program which was BASED ON a Cuban literacy program. The Cuban Govt is NOT running a literacy program in Australia. LOL

Pilger is an ideological dinosaur, stuck in an outdated neo-Marxist matrix which governs his perception of the world, with a high degree of selectivity. Of course, to some extent we are all necessarily guilty of selectivity, being fallibly human, but few people I have known are as committed to exclusion of whatever does not support their peculiar Weltanschauung as Pilger. This means that he is in the end of no great relevance as a commentator on affairs. But his peculiar little piece on race relations in Australia has at least had the effect (unintended, I'm sure) of provoking some, often thoughtful, reflections on the subject in OLO. So even a Pilger can be of some use.

Tonyo

I've often wondered what would happen if "Life as we know it." came to an end. Meaning if there was no more electricity or petrol/gas etc. Would man survive & for how long?

Well, I think most of "man" would die off in 3 to 6 months, through disease, hunger, & fighting, etc.

Who would survive & for how long? The Dooms dayers would for a year or two, maybe.

The people that would survive & thrive would be the Bush Indigenous in Outback Australia, in the jungles & deserts of Africa, the Jungles of South East Asia & in the Jungles of South America. In fact anywhere where modern civilization hasn't reached.

I don't think the Western idea of a high IQ would work for us very well in that situation.

Just a thought whilst staring at my navel.

John Pilger has written what we have already known. Nothing new at all ... Rehashed information presented as new with all the flourish of evangelism ...

However, unless Pilger suggests a solution, he is part of the problem.

Maybe It's not the White Community, but the Indigenous Community that has a self imposed apartheid.

Anyway in todays news.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/dec/24/uncapping-university-places-no-help-indigenous-rural-remote-students

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/call-for-doubling-of-aboriginal-university-student-numbers-20120914-25w7s.html

http://www.academia.edu/3572923/Indigenous_Higher_Education_The_Role_of_Universities_in_Releasing_the_Potential

Some people hate whatever the Guardian has to say so I included the SMH& Acadenia, for balance.

Couple of fact checks:

Charles Perkins was in the 3rd year of his degree when he went on the freedom rides; he had not graduated.

Perkins freely admitted he was not the instigator or leader of the freedom rides. He was elected president of SAFA after the concept of the rides had been decided upon.

Children are not being 'stolen'. To say so invokes images of the Stolen Generations, which was part of the assimilation program in many states. That is not happening. One wonders if Pilger has ever read the 'Little Children are Sacred' report or the radio interview transcript with Nanette Rogers.

Pilger fails to mention those in remote communities, such as Bess Price, who support many of the Intervention (Stronger Futures) initiatives. He prefers to present his 'whites are evil' mantra despite its obvious flaws.

There is no doubt many remote communities and their people are suffering but Pilger's bleating of half-truths does nothing to help them. He could be accused of ego stroking and presenting a completely biased view.

Minator,

"He could be accused of ego stoking ...etc ...

Couldn't agree more. But this has been and remains his 'holier than thou' pattern ...

White Australians like me (and many poster's on this site) consistently fail to appreciate the depth of the problems that have been inflicted on Aboriginal Australia. Plenty of Indigenous Australians in the Outback are living in less than 3rd World conditions. I've been there and seen them - I'd recommend more people go to Alice Springs and hang out there for awhile to get a bit of an introduction. Most Australians would be shocked to see what daily life is like Outback for people whose forebears watched the arrival of the first boat people in the late 18th century.
Why do we have such an over supply of analysis but at the same time, a terrible lack of practical solutions?
Pilger is right to raise the issues, but surely a lack of working solutions to the problems faced by the original Australians is the elephant-not-in-the-room of current Australian thinking.

TAC: White Australians like me (and many poster's on this site) consistently fail to appreciate the depth of the problems that have been inflicted on Aboriginal Australia.

I fail to see how White Australians forces the Indigenous population to live in squalor. This is a problem of their own making. hey don't have to. They can stop throwing litter (beer cans & empty goonie casks) around for a start.

TAC: Plenty of Indigenous Australians in the Outback are living in less than 3rd World conditions.

And they would have been living in 1st. class conditions if Europeans had never arrived. Well, buggar me, eh.

TAC: Most Australians would be shocked to see what daily life is like

Yep we are, but I don't believe it's all White Mans fault.

TAC: Outback for people whose forebears watched the arrival of the first boat people in the late 18th century.

Great eyesight from the Alice.

TAC: Why do we have such an over supply of analysis but at the same time, a terrible lack of practical solutions?

Agreed, I have suggested some solutions on OLO in the past but you won't get one from the Academics or the Indigenous Agencies because they would lose their Cash Cow.

TAC: Pilger is right to raise the issues,

Pilger? Pilger, Who? He one of the Academics acerbating the problem. Notice how he hasn't even had the decency to join the conversation on his Post. In fact I doubt very much if he has even looked at any of the conversations at all. Just another nobody pushing for his "Great Australian" Award mid year.

T.A.C.

Problems remain. But it hasn't been for want of trying to find solutions. Solutions have been tried ... however ...

Personally, I think workable solutions can only be found by those who work closely with our indigenous peoples

What solutions do you propose?

Some years ago I attended a conference, which indigenous women attended.

Having coffee with them, I asked what they saw was the problem. The unanimous reply was that their men had been emasculated. I believe this is the fundamental issue.

Addressing the "problems" of our indigenous needs to go right back to the drawing board. For a start, perhaps they should be permitted their own laws ... I do not know.

But certainly the academics seem to have no idea ...

Danielle: For a start, perhaps they should be permitted their own laws.

I have advocated that for years. Only in the Bush & maybe in some Settlements though. The Townies & City indigenous are stuck with our Laws because they have accepted a European Lifestyle & all that encompasses. They can't claim both. Although some of them could do with a good spearing, it never hurt anybody. :)

Danielle: I think workable solutions can only be found by those who work closely with our indigenous peoples.

Now that's a bit of a curly one. If the Indigenous Agancies solve the problem then they'll lose out on their over paid jobs & numerous Grants, car, free housing, etc. Would you solve the problem.

By the way that was told to me by an Indigenous CEO.

Jayb,

You obviously have a good knowledge and perception of what is occurring within the indigenous communities.

I visited an previously active aboriginal community (of course ... the last remaining people had been transferred elsewhere). On the walls was a list of rules they traditionally adhered to. I was impressed. Some foods were forbidden to younger people; these foods being permitted only to the very old, young children and pregnant women. All the rules were ideal for a hunter-gatherer society.

As a white person, I am ambivalent about spearing, but this was the only method that could be employed in a society without gaols, etc.

Perhaps, however, it would be better than gaoling. The only time I have ever talked with an indigenous person from the far outback was when we were both waiting a library to open. It was mid-winter. He had been sleeping rough needed the warmth inside. He had come to the city for medical treatment and had been staying with family, but from what he explained, I gleaned that sleeping in a room was frightening, indeed impossible. He would rather sleep in the bitter cold out in the open. I can't even begin to imagine what being in gaol is like for them.

Like you, I believe that they should be given their lives back which entails having their own laws. The latter may well mean changes, but it should be up to them, and I think whites need to stay right out of it.

The PC crowd are silent about so many horrors evident overseas - calling it being culturally sensitive. But when there is a need to let our own indigenous people reclaim their culture in a significant way, the same people are the first to hedge them

I work as a teacher with indigenous kids in the city. They almost invariably have issues, especially "chips on the shoulder" type problems. Multi-generational problems are hard to undo when they have settled in over such a long period of time. The indigenous problem is only aggravated by mean-spirited people who are more a part of the problem than offering any rational solutions. I am dismayed that some people reading OLO appear unaware that assimilation, taking children from their families, the White Australia Policy and the introduction of previously unknown diseases etc did not have a lasting effect on indigenous Australians which we still see to this day. Mate, after so much damage over such a long time, who wouldn't have a chip on their shoulder?
Just try and have a beer in a far Northern Territory bar sometime if you don't think there are white vs black Australian issues in Australia to this today. We really need to bring a better standard of discussion to the table - one that is based on what is actually happening on the ground.
No wonder the indigenous question lacks real leadership in positive ways forward.

TAC

"... assimilation, taking children from their families, the White Australia Policy and the introduction of previously unknown diseases etc did not have a lasting effect on indigenous Australians which we still see to this day."

I don't think anyone here disputes this. What seems to be the problem is the ineffective programs set in place by those who benefit financially; ineffective programs which perpetuate problems. Despite all the tearful "mea culpa" expression of "sorry," have the circumstances of our indigenous populations improved in any meaningful ways?

Yes, apartheid is alive in Australia.

When John Pilger visited Alice Springs in 1969 large areas of land outside Alice Springs were held in trusts for "Traditional Owners", many still living the old way.

Commonwealth's own Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) 1976 Act transferred both ownership and management to "representative" delegates for "Traditional Owners", they control the corporate "Land Trusts" which hold title to the land.

The Commonwealth consistently uses the ALR(NT) to promote, practice and defend racism and apartheid policies.

Why attack the Commonwealth or NT government for the shoddy housing conditions in these communities, or in Alice Springs sub-urbs ?

These lands with titles held by corporate Land Trusts and similar.

John Pilger with fellow travelers refuse to call these corporate Land Trusts to account for their refusal to provide tenants with basic leases, their refusal to maintain housing, their refusal to spend some of their millions to build new houses.

These corporate Land Trusts with their Commonwealth appointed property agent "Land Councils" remain clearly responsible for shoddy housing, deplorable living conditions, and failed development - as can not obtain basic leases.

Other landlords so behaving are called to account in court, but not these...

Commonwealth, States and Territories continue policy which qualifies the rights and responsibilities of Australians using "race".

Commonwealth still purports to hold and exercise an authority to impose racist, apartheid policies upon Australians.

Such disrespect for Australians who in their 1967 Referenda were acknowledged as seeking to extinguish any and all authority claimed to legitimize exactly such racist, apartheid practices

John Pilger ...

My opinion is that John Pilger is a self-serving hit and run merchant.

Has anyone been able to engage in serious debate with this man.

" .... taking children from their families ...."

Danielle,

Well, yes, I do dispute this: apart from the case of Bruce Trevorrow here in SA - which was illegally done, in SA law - there have been no other cases proven anywhere in Australia. Anywhere. From the little research that I've done, I would conclude that the rate - and reasons - for taking Indigenous children into care have been similar to those for non-Indigenous children since 1840, around 5 %, and for understandable causes such as mother dying, father dying, family break-down or destitution and blatant neglect.

Throughout history, various groups have been accused of stealing children, Jews, Gypsies, the Catholic church, it's one of the most gut-wrenching accusations that can be made.

But evidence is something else: in SA, according to the school records from one major Mission, covering the period 1880 to 1966, out of eight hundred ids ever enrolled, barely a dozen seem to have been strangers, orphans, foundlings, whatever, taken TO the Mission School, and fewer than fifty children were ever put into care AWAY FROM the Mission, and almost all came back within a year or so and eventually married other Indigenous people. So much for turning indigenous people into white people (who the hell ever dreamed that one up?). In that time, forty mothers died, mostly in child-birth, leaving 140 children of school-age.

But if you know of any cases of children taken away from functioning families, from living mothers, just let us know :)

Cheers,

Joe
www.firstsources.info

The removal of children, mostly those of mixed heritage, was common in most parts of Australia. That is why Kevin Rudd apologised to the 'Stolen Generations'. In New South Wales the Aboriginal Protection Board used powers of the Aboriginal Protection Act 1915 to remove children and have them trained as servants. It was mostly girls reaching puberty although boys were also removed and put into 'apprenticeships'. The rationale was to get them used to the ways of the white people and assimilate them into white society.

In reality many of the girls suffered sexual abuse and often got pregnant. They were rarely allowed to keep their babies. There was also the case that none of them were paid the allowance due to them. The documentary 'Lousy Little Sixpence' is informative on that. As is the Rosalind Kidd book 'Trustees on Trial – Recovering the Stolen Wages' and Anna Haebich's 'Broken Circles'. John Maynard also covers a great deal of the NSW situation in his book 'Fight for Liberty and Freedom – The Origins of Australian Political Activism'.

To claim children were not removed from their families, other than for 'welfare' reasons, is to show a complete ignorance of what really went on...particularly in NSW, Qld and WA.

Hi minotaur,

Until the fifties, compulsory schooling lasted only until a child was fourteen, less in rural areas if a child was more than a certain distance from a school. So children, including Indigenous children, working from fourteen was nothing unusual. My grand-dad was working at nine, back in the 1880s. Well into the twentieth century, farm kids didn't even have to go to school at all, they worked on their families' farms, sun-up to sun-down.

So Indigenous girls of fourteen going out to work on stations was nothing particularly dreadful. In fact, my wife went out in the sixties, when she was fifteen, to work on a sheep station. She would have been surprised to hear that she was part of a 'stolen generation'. And the chances of getting pregnant were not so high there, the station lessee's wife usually saw to that.

As for being 'assimilated', such children were usually well and truly already on that road, they could speak English, they had had some education, their parents - as often as not - wanted their girls, especially, placed more out of harm's way and into what was considered, for girls, more secure employment. After all, what were the employment options for working-class girls at that time, and until well after the Second World War ? Not factory work, it didn't exist for women. Seamstresses maybe, and if they were lucky, or more middle-class, careers as teachers or nurses.

Of course, kids were put into care for 'welfare' reasons: do you think life was all sweetness and light back then ? Single mothers had to either put their kids into care or battle like buggery to keep them and raise them, there was no single mother's benefit until 1971 or so.

In fact, in relation to Indigenous people, I've come to consider that 'Protection' meant mainly 'Protection of young, unmarried girls', even on Missions and government settlements, as well as for the elderly.

Apart from hearsay, do you have any evidence otherwise ?

Cheers,

Joe
www.firstsources.info