The reality is that the illegal boats are a sensitive issue with the Indonesians, and implementing this policy is not possible with the megaphone diplomacy that Labors talking heads loved.

What should be remembered is that the level of co operation with Indonesia with regards illegal boats is at an all time high resulting in:

3 boats of rescued illegals being returned to Indonesia which never happened under Labor.

Illegal boats being stopped in Indonesian waters by Indonesia,

Record numbers of illegal boats being stopped before leaving port.

Numbers of illegal arrivals dropping by more than 75% (closer to 90%) to record lows,

Because the numbers are so low illegals are quickly deported or shipped off shore, most of whom will never see Australia again.

Indonesian politicians need a kick up the backsides; they are petulant and demanding like many modern children. They take our money - which, of course, our own silly politicians do not have to give them - then they abuse us and whine about us.

I think it's of fundamental importance to remember right now that 2014 is an election year in Indonesia. Politicians will play to the gallery. Recall our own last election, and the yadda yadda that banged about our ears.
I hope Abbott can resist playing to his domestic audience at the expense of fostering meaningful ties with Indonesia. And not just regarding the boats. As stated, we need Indonesia more than they need us. Being friends with the Yanks is all well and good, but they don't live here. We do. So do the Indonesians.

We'd all surely have to think about having a Heart for the National Party at the moment wouldn't you?

I can't much see that those turkies in the liberal party could do too much worse even if they were trying - straight out of the blocks and flat on his face over and over, so much so that there is little sport to be had for the likes of me, so pathetic a display it has been, and then what, when feeling the heat they curl up in a ball with *Electricity Bill* and reaffirm those things which most truly unite them.

The apparent unwillingness of mainstream politicians to want to compete is part of the fundamental problem with Australia in my view. To consider the broad brush of history it appears to my limited vantage point that essentially they continue to make the same mistakes that they always have, and this is a very import aspect that needs to be considered when thinking about "growth" more generally.

To put that another way, by all means have secure borders, but in so doing, do not abuse people.

Now, as for something of my personal experience with the Indonesians, I would say that Aust guvment behavior has caused hurt to the hearts of those Indonesians who have/had good will for you. This has been compounded by the enacted ignorant and arrogant display of refusing to apologise publicly.

Whether you agree or not, smuggling illegal equipment for the purposes of espionage is an open act of war (declared or otherwise) in the view of some people.

As for that recent outburst by ASIO, that is more than enough reason to cast someone into the fire in my view, so incredibly stupid ...

.. as a friend though, there is a very beautiful and gentle side to the Indos and currently, unfortunately, some of us are being grossly misrepresented by the people calling the shots in the guvment.

The Asylum Seeker issue could be more like shooing chickens that want not to go home, but that's up to yourselves, but suffice to say, if you come down hard on their citizens, then they will come down hard on yours.

I'll give you another super popular Indo tune, and that one of National proportions, which perhaps some of you may best understand in the following:

" ... Anything you can do, I can do better, I can do anything better than you ... "

..

I can't help but imagine that there has been some wicked parties in Russia in recent times .. HaHaHa .. I'll wonder if we'll get an app for our gadgets and track *Snowden,* if he is found worthy, as he does a few high speed laps round the globe .. WooooHoooo!

Hmmm .. some great wisdom (notwithstanding wheels within wheels) seems to shine through this, as if we push the chair back a bit,

1. you must grow now that your adversaries have and

2. if there is to be an Asian century, indeed you must want to grow in a variety of ways and indeed it is best to start with a good spring cleaning and an even playing field.

Perhaps, if nothing else, we can all find some commonality in this.

1. it was not about people smuggling, that was simply a lie Philip Ruddock invented as an excuse to torture innocent people. The book Borderline by Peter Mares explains on page 16 how it all came about. Media since that day have been to lazy and moronic to even bother to challenge it.
2. as asylum seekers cannot legally stay in Indonesia it is quite legal for Indonesia to allow them to find alternative countries to go to and cannot by law make them stay in Indonesia where they are neither wanted nor protected.

@Marilyn & Dream-on

<< it was not about people smuggling>>
It's about trying to getting into a affluent western country and its a major league scam --wake-up!

<< asylum [scamers] cannot legally stay in Indonesia>>
Yes Marilyn, they can fly back home --many have already done so.

<<in Indonesia where they are neither wanted nor protected>>
1) They are protected AND ASSISTED by officialdom whom they have often bribed.
2)It might have missed your notice but they are not wanted in OZ, outside a small but very very vocal and embittered minority --like you and dream-on--no one wants them here either.

No, the Abbott government might never develop an understanding of Indonesia in relation to boat people.

Mr Abbott failed to respond to urgent requests to meet to understand some modern day causes and solutions to Asia-Pacific poverty.

Worsening poverty and chronic hardship and unrest are driving many people to leave their countries. Indonesians are generally compassionate people, like most Australians.

By his own attention to his own interests such as swimming and bike riding, Mr Abbott has apparently not had time or has not wanted to hear about collapse of seafood supply, consequences and solutions.
That collapse causes many fishing boats to become rundown and INCREASINGLY available for cheap sale to smugglers.

PM Abbott suggests buying those boats before the smugglers get them. Accordingly, PM Abbott is surely oblivious to the increasing and ongoing numbers and availability of those run down boats.

A capable leader is not oblivious to problems and causes and therefore understands the best direction to lead the team to achieve solutions.

I think a problem may be the extreme right wing influence in Coalition and Labor politics

You've got it quite wrong there JF Aus. There is no requirement for Abbott, or any Ozzie to understand Indonesia's position on boat people.

What is required is that Indonesia understand ours.

They have to get into their heads that we will not accept them profiting from running illegals into our country.

In a controlled society such as theirs, nothing happens without the at least basic approval from the top. If you know anything about the place, you also know that palms are being greased at a very high level.

If they continue to play games, we have to cut aid, & cut it totally. Once we have thus gained their attention, we have to argue from strength.

Abbott did the softly softly approach, & was attacked for it by the left. I am most interested to see the lefts response, when he gets heavy, if that is required.

The level of cooperation he was getting from Indonesia shows he must have done some plain talking in private. Perhaps he needs to become a little less private in future dealings.

I expect he will give them a little more time to pull some outlying members of their establishment into line, but they would be fools to stretch his patience too far.

Hasbeen --you beat me to it!

JF Aus says: <<the Abbott government might never develop an understanding of Indonesia in relation to boat people>>

The Indonesians could put a stop to the trade if they wanted to. It appears too many of their officialdom stand to benefit from allowing it to continue.

Unfortunately, Oz has been type-cast ('cause we played the role so long) as the regions rescuer and final receiver of all and sundry who play the asylum scammer game -- it's going to be no easy task correcting things.

Our politicians need to remember they represent the interests of Australia-not the UN or the small but vocal group of asylum scammer advocates

Hasbeen,

There is a fundamental requirement for Mr Abbott to love and respect his neighbours and do unto others. I think we need to understand Indonesia and vice versa. For example we need to understand Indonesia is suffering due to poverty linked to collapse of traditional seafood supply and land availability for ordinary people. Those situations cause Indonesians to have more compassion for others, but Australians’ don’t see such hardship.

Australian government people are profiting from lurks and perks that are also illegal or improper.
Nothing significant happens in our own controlled society either unless you are a political crony. There are greasy hands in Aus too.

Cutting aid to get attention would be tantamount to blackmail and proud Indo’s would not respond to that, I think they would just shut the door and LOL.

Abbott has been wrong about the situation from the start, like Howard was, who is likely pulling the strings anyway.
How could anyone in the know justify turning around overloaded boats full of people, many unable to swim?

The coalition is grossly out of touch with reality.
People in neighbouring countries are really struggling with now very serious long term-chronic poverty.
Their plight to do with affordable food supply collapse and possible solutions are being suppressed by Aust government and it’s communicator the ABC.

Meanwhile Aus govt is full steam ahead continuing to waste parliamentary time and public money.
with non-sense about emissions, I think likely an ETS via PM Abbott.

Has anybody heard anything from PM Abbott at CHOGM, about algae and El Nino (high-seas) links to economics of weather damage to food supply, affecting Indonesia and Australia? N.B this link:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/ElNinoColor/el_nino_color_3.ph

A missing link so to speak. Please see here:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/ElNinoColor/el_nino_color_3.php

Interesting that in Sri Lanka at the current conference of Commonwealth Leaders, the UK Conservative Leader is leaving Tony Abbott way behind; when it comes to an objective and a real progressive approach to world issues.

Yep, you can't help but feel sorry for the people of the UK can you Kipp, with a damn fool like that for their PM?

Does PM Tony Abbott have any right to withhold information of substance from Commonwealth Head of Government and the international community, such as about worsening seafood devastation and protein deficiency malnutrition and associated disease and early death amongst SW Pacific islanders and other people?

Does the Government of Australian or any Australian PM have such right, or right not to duly investigate?

People of Sri Lanka would be suffering similar food devastation impact and consequences to Pacific islanders, reason why at least some Sri Lankans might be prepared to travel on run down boats in open sea to reach another country illegally.

Oh for heavens sake JF Aus, grow up, recognise you've been conned, & walk away.

Hasbeen,

Telling someone to grow up is ad hominem, it's what I expect from a coalition supporter.
You should state how a person has been conned.
And why they should walk away.

I speak honestly from experience.

Understand Hasbeen, I have been a Liberal Country National supporter all my life, my family too, until the extreme right wing Howard Downer Abbott government failed their responsibility, Mr Abbott also recently.
That government misappropriated new information about serious fish depletion and used it to develop aquaculture policy instead of ocean ecosystem management policy.
They did nothing about impact of seafood collapse impact on islanders or consequences for the environment and other people, including for fishing families and amateur fishing-linked tourism throughout Indonesia, Asia and worldwide.

Think Hasbeen, instead of walking away.
Do you think Sri Lanka people would risk life on ‘boats’ if they had abundant free or low cost seafood at home with income to buy?

Do you think is at all even remotely possible increased algae may be linked to increased ocean surface warmth and some more severe weather?

Do you think fishermen could afford to keep their boats in good condition and keep fishing, if fish were still there to be caught and sold for such big money these days?

This Abbott approach giving patrol boats to force back troubled people trying to escape Sri Lanka, is very wrong.
The Mannus Island - Labor solution is working, economic refugees do not want to live in PNG.
Mannus is a virtual resort filled by Australia and in various ways that can help PNG. So, there are solutions but not if you walk away politically.

The whole ocean of the world is now seriously and generally devastated of seafood and human sewage and land use nutrient fed algae destruction of seagrass food web nurseries is the fundamental cause.

Micro algae is now so dense it can be viewed from space, with the very first pinpoint wisps of cloud visible developing and streaming into bigger cloud.
http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/40000/40716/bering_amo_2009281_lrg.jpg

If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, please show it here

He has got you there, Hasbeen. Illegal immigrants should flood into Australia at a cost to the Aussie taxpayer of $20 million a boatload because there are not enough fish and Tony Abbot is to blame.

You're right of course LEGO, that damn Abbott probably fed the multitude with them.

Interesting that JF Aus has been a Liberal supporter "all his life" but for the last 15 years. That is no time at all is it?

I wonder if he fell off his pushbike 15 years ago & hit his head?

More ad hom waste of precious time.
Unable to produce any evidence.

But as Galileo said and it is still relevant "Eppur si muove", in this case significantly down. Only the wilfully simple conflate a single scene into a whole play or a battle into a war. I knew something like this would happen, we are an Indon whipping boy (Howards effective East Timor Solution and the Konfrontasi) and they have an election next year.