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The Forum > Article Comments > Year 12 exams prove some school systems > Comments

Year 12 exams prove some school systems : Comments

By Kevin Donnelly, published 31/10/2013

Research proves that Catholic and independent schools compared to government schools get the best academic results and get more students into university.

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It's called the swimmer's body illusion.
Posted by cj, Thursday, 31 October 2013 7:52:23 AM
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It's the singer not the song!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 31 October 2013 9:48:35 AM
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Kevin Donnelly writes "And we don’t have to look to Asian countries and Finland for solutions to how best to raise standards and it’s not about investing more and more into education."

Finland manages to do obtain the best results in the PISA tests without any indoctrination of the students. Dr Pasi Sahlberg gave an excellent talk on the Finnish education system at;

http://events.unimelb.edu.au/recordings/68-how-finland-remains-immune-to-the-global-educational-reform-movement

Canada is insisting that every student in every school study a subject that covers all religious beliefs and ethics. The RC Church supported a case against their students' participation all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court and lost.

The Court appeared to hold that each student's right to understand the cultural pressures applying to their peers outweighed the right of parents and the church to deny them that knowledge. The Court decision is described as SCC Case Information: 33678
The number was a link but it may now not be.
Posted by Foyle, Thursday, 31 October 2013 9:52:07 AM
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Kevin I've said tis before you need to show your working out. To me this looks like you've copied someone else homework most likely that guy from the rightwing think tank who wants to bring in school vouchers.
Let's start by naming the "study" your drawing from, and how about including some other studies that might have conflicting results and talk about why that might be?
Posted by Cobber the hound, Thursday, 31 October 2013 10:45:13 AM
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What is it with lefties, & feminists, Don't they want their kids to get a decent education?

Kevin's article highlights some facts in the failing of our union dominated government schools, & out come the lefties to deny the facts. I suppose it is solidarity at work, supporting the teachers union.

What Kevin fails to highlight is the feminist domination of the government systems, which are strident in dumbing down the system, so girls can be more successful. Any emphasis in knowledge & technical areas is submerged under a mountain of verbiage, so favored by females.

Assessment based on home assignments are favored in place of hard knowledge based examinations, where actual learning & comprehension are required. Until proper testing is reintroduced in government schools, they are going to continue slipping even further behind.

He doesn't mention that this feminisation has not so deeply penetrated the private sector, which depends on this years results, not spin, for next years enrolments.

I wonder if he will give us another article on the reasons, as he sees them, & his suggestions for repair of the failing system.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 31 October 2013 12:57:16 PM
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I would like to know the names of the researchers, the name of the articles and the journals in which they were published. Without these Dr Donnelly’s article is just his opinion.

It is my undocumented observation that students from Catholic and Independent schools also have a higher failure and dropout rate at universities so that the percentage completing a degree and graduating is slightly biased in favour of public schools.
Posted by Brian of Buderim, Thursday, 31 October 2013 3:25:42 PM
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If you want to have a rant about good/bad/left/right fine. Let's not pretend though that an argument this poorly made is worth a 2nd glance. The appeal to research is bunk. An argument of this quality would fail an undergraduate course. Do you have any idea at all how difficult it would be to design, let alone conduct an experiment to investigate your assertion?

As I said earlier, it's called the swimmer's body illusion. Look it up. It's not rocket science.
Posted by cj, Thursday, 31 October 2013 3:39:07 PM
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just another llewd act of verbal ma$turbation.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 31 October 2013 7:25:49 PM
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I hadn't heard of the swimmer's body illusion before, but it seems to fit with my initial reaction to the article. Parents who send their children to private schools have a commitment to education to the extent that they are prepared to pay for something they could obtain for nothing. Some government school parents simply cannot afford to pay fees, some have a commitment to public education, and some just don't care that much about education. There are students at government schools who just don't want to be there, who disrupt learning for others and who can pull down ATAR averages across the sector. It would be interesting to know if the differential between public and private school ATARS has got worse since the school leaving age was raised, forcing disaffected students to stay through to year twelve.
Posted by Candide, Friday, 1 November 2013 6:21:05 AM
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Catholic schools can pick and choose their students, whereas State schools are obliged by law to take every child in the area. Most of them are also much better funded per child than State schools. Do a study controlling for those variables -- if you can -- and then your results will have some credibility.
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 1 November 2013 6:26:19 AM
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Year 12 exams prove some school systems

Does that mean we can look forward to the apprentices to be able to read the instruction manual for a hammer ? that really would make things easier for me. Just imagine the luxury of one of them being able to write down the smoko list.
Posted by individual, Friday, 1 November 2013 6:57:07 AM
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If I remember rightly, statistically, and over a number of studies, sorry I have long forgotten names and details, Private school kids have always been able to get into universities but it is the kids form government schools who are more likely to complete the course.
This may have changed with the rise in students from Asian families changing variables of course but there is much more variables in the mix than just the culture of the school and the extent of the discipline. If you really want your ideas challenged go mand have a look at Box Hill High School.
Posted by jenny H, Monday, 4 November 2013 10:57:38 AM
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You are exactly right Jenny H, the main reason being that while most (but not all) children who attend private schools are from relatively well off families, most children in the public school system are not and as a consequence have to fight and work much harder to go to uni. My own daughter was in the Special Needs Class at her primary school when I gained custody at 8/9 yo. My fight in the family court wiped out any spare money I had and then some. Nothing elitist here am very much from lower socio economic working class. Apart from years of abuse and neglect at the hands of her mother and the trauma associated with a protracted custody battle she had Lead levels as high as 73, more than 7 times the Maximum recommended level. She has worked incredibly hard to get where she is today. My daughter worked cleaning other peoples houses to help finance her university studies. Adversity can be very character building. She completed a 4 year Psychology degree with 1st class honours and won the university medal when she was still only 21 yo. Now 23 she is in the second year of a PHD in Forensic Psychology. I note that several of her more well off contemporaries have fallen by the wayside.
Posted by eyeinthesky, Thursday, 7 November 2013 12:20:03 PM
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