MPs first responsibility is to their electorate, then to fulfill any role they have been given. Travel claims should be limited to those functions. 'Community engagement' outside their electorate is for the benefit of their party, not their constituents, and should be charged to the party. Where they mix business with pleasure costs should be split pro-rata. Overseas 'study leave' should be abolished - the internet has made it redundant.

"Mr Abbott has paid back items from the past, and admitted his error...."

Except that he's only paid back some (and ony then when the media has caught a whiff) - and there are huge questions over his practice of claiming expenses for self-promotion for himself and his family, by competing in sporting events, watching them - and even his so-called charity work.

Here's another article on the subject:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-11/cassidy-abbott-cant-simply-ride-out-the-expenses-furore/5014310?WT.mc_id=newsmail

These expenses questions have been known for some time, especially in regard to Mr Abbott. The question is why, after remaining quiet on the issue before the election, has MSM decided at this juncture to pursue it?

Abbott has more serious problems than taking advantage of his travel entitlements, Don!

That he twice repeated in an Asian Forum that Japan was Australia's best friend shows clearly that he has no aptitude for the job of Prime Minister. None!

Let him attend bike races and surf carnival where he is at home. What he says there is of no consequence.

On the world stage, things are different!

I think you'd be battling to find a better example of a questionable expenses claim than this:

http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/1828922/free-reign-pm-tony-abbott-under-fire-for-tamworth-festival-trip-as-expense-scandal-deepens/?cs=159

"HE SWAGGERED down Peel St like a Nashville star, posing in a cowboy hat, dancing a country-style jig and even embracing a mystery blonde holding a “Free Hugs” sign.

But Prime Minister Tony Abbott has found himself in the eye of an expense scandal storm after it emerged his trip to the 2012 Country Music Festival was anything but “free” for taxpayers.

The then-Opposition leader claimed $9347 in work expenses for the whirlwind visit – despite not even staying in the city overnight."

"The parliamentary entitlements register shows taxpayers forked out $8800 for a private return charter flight for Mr Abbott from Sydney to Tamworth on January 25, 2012.

There is no indication on the register of where the other $547 was spent."

?

<<>>..I saw the meetings all as work.>>

yes vendless party time
with the LOBBY..is hard work
but to deal..with the lobnby..is yourchoice

lie down with dogs ya get fleas

why do we elect you
to represent our intrests..not the mobneyed business lobbyinytrests

get it?

<<Other might have thought..I liked the free grog,>>
esteem..being wanted..spoiled flaterd...etc

<<..or party pies,..or whatever was being served.>>up on a platter..or gift bag..or free case of booze..or special mates rates..dealing

or tickets to the next special event..with the lobby..
for a new govt gift?..bailout..or favour

<<..I am a writer, with several projects on the way at any time, fiction and non-fiction...Theoretically I could argue that whatever I did was grist to my mill,..and therefore the costs of my whole life were in a sense tax-deductible...>>

look mate..im..a low wage tax slave
my travel costs NECESSARY..TO MY JOB..arnt even..tax deductible..let alone free

my wage..isnt..even income..[as defined in..the act]
we got IN-come tax..not wage tax..but that dont stop govt stealing us blind..why tax us to death..and bailout those only receiving TRUE income..[ie corporation/and family trusts]

at which..event..was tax free fuel.subsidy=12 billion..gifted
to big business..miners/farmers..plundering our COMMON/weal resources..

not even..taxed properly..thus subsidized
yet again..by us wage slaves.,.free ports ..free rail..free lunch

FREE..infrastructure
[free pipes/poles/wires..anyone?

and the rest of you..keep..extending my patent right
nice money..if you can whisper..it in..the right ear..in between bites of fishy eggs and shampusspain.

All I can say is that if any employee of mine put in an expense claim on grounds as flimsy as some of these that are coming to light, they would be out on their ear. And I'm pretty certain that the same simple "business-only" rules apply to all levels of industry in this country, from the office cleaners right up to the CEO.

Let's first of all stop calling them "entitlements", which indicates that the recipients somehow feel "entitled" to special treatment.

They are not.

They should be called what they are: business-related expenses, and should be scrutinized as such.

How is it possible for politicians to just simply be paid whatever they claim?

How can there not be an authority that approves or denies expense claims??

When I was a public servant with a heavy fieldwork component, I was forever claiming expenses. But they all had to be approved.

Travel claims have been contentious for decades. So…. how on earth can there not be an authority that approve or denies expense claims??

Well….. it is certainly worth asking twice.

In fact…. What I’d really like to know is….

How can there not be an authority that approves or denies expense claims?? ( :>/

Ludwig - Quote "Travel claims have been contentious for decades. So…. how on earth can there not be an authority that approve or denies expense claims??"

In theory a good thing to have but 1 big problem is the checkers would be the employees of the people they are checking the expenses of.

If they reject some they may loose there job.

Just like the group who calculate the salary for the politicians, we have a prime minister who earns more than the American president.

Ain't 20X20 hindsight a wonderful thing!
Rhrosty.

That is not true, Philip S.

"...we have a prime minister who earns more than the American president."

What we have is a Prime Minister who is paid more than the US President.

Perhaps we should look at all expenses of all state and federal parliamentarians during the last ten years. Strike a median average for ministers and backbenchers; State and Federal! Then half it and tell them, this is your tax free entitlement.
Spend it how you will, booze or groceries or a round of meat pies for the local footy club, if you wish.
Just don't come back asking for more!
Learn how to use the internet and video conference, it'll save time, money and the size of your personal carbon footprint!
Isn't Parliament connected with fibre cable to virtually the rest of the world; and wouldn't video conferencing provide less security headaches for the expensive army of minders, who are nearly always present on these flamin junkets?
Learn how to make far better use of public transport!
That'll not only save big Beckiz, but likely see us very soon having the very best public transport systems in the world.
And if your frugality allows you to save 20-30,000 PA, just put it in the pocket or contribute to your favorite charities, it's your money either way!
Rhrosty.

Thin article. More about the author's greatness.

WmTrevor - You are right, my bad.

Ludwig,
"How is it possible for politicians to just simply be paid whatever they claim? How can there not be an authority that approves or denies expense claims??"

I believe there used to be something called The Department of Administrative Affairs but it was closed down by John Howard (after he lost too many Ministers due to similar indiscretions).

I also had some TA experience many years ago and people would be charged (and some even went to prison) for claims later proven to be false.

They should be issued with credit cards with accommodation and meal costs to be proven up to a certain limit and completely remove the tax-free cash component.

"Take the sugar off the table" and watch them resign from politics.

Too many snouts - not enough troughs.

"Thin article" is putting it mildly. Pissweak would be a more apt description.
Telling how long it took for OLO to put up even this mediocre effort and where are the usual rightards who were so vocal about juliar and slipper and the rest of the labor party just a few short weeks ago. Seems they have gone to ground and "dont want to talk about it" just like their cowardly hero has done recently.

After 3 years of screaming about slipper, thompson, ancient history about Gillards days as a lawyer, all the ranting about "lies", "worst government ever" etc etc ad nauseum, this rorting by rabbott and his fellow lieberals just takes the cake. Hypocrisy knows no bounds for these born to rule scum does it. Going to shock jocks weddings, weddings in India for gina reinhart. Give me a break. Triathlons, fun runs, bike rides, even when he was supposedly "volunteering" in aboriginal communities. The book selling tour, mirrabellas wedding, football matches, test cricket it just goes on and on. Next we will find out he charges us for his "supposed" bushfire fighting activities. And it is not just him they have all been doing it. bishop, brandis, barmy barnaby and who knows who else.

continued

continued

This is blatant and deliberate theft from the Australian taxpayer. I understand mistakes happen but once is an accident what is it up to now? 7 or 8? That is theft, premeditated and willful theft and they know it. What happens to centrelink recipients when they do that, even if it is an accident? What happens if you claim a trip to compete in the Port Maquarie triathlon on your tax return? What if you claim research expenses from your employer and hand them a report that could have been written by a 5 year old?

If it was labor i wouldnt be suprised but this lot of shysters have been ripping us off for years all the while screaming about how bad and corrupt the other side is. Well it seems you fooled enough people to get voted in but I doubt they will stay fooled for much longer.

They should all be charged and brought before the courts not just allowed to pay back whatever they feel like and get away with their dishonesty scot free. This whole business stinks to high heaven and if they are capable of this sort of sleaze then what else are they up to? How do we know they dont take bribes, favor their mates, indulge in other corrupt conduct? If they cant be trusted with their expenses how can we trust them to run our country?

mikk,

"..... I understand mistakes happen but once is an accident what is it up to now? 7 or 8?....."

Here's a list of Abbott's top 25.

http://imputeation.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/abbotts-age-of-entitlement-tonys-top.html?m=1

(And that's only Abbott)

Gawd...here's another one.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/19291888/wa-liberal-pays-back-expenses/

"WA Federal Liberal MP Steve Irons was forced to repay almost $11,000 in wrongly claimed airfares and car transport fees this year.

Details of the repayments came as Prime Minister Tony Abbott admitted he was forced to repay taxpayer cash he claimed for travel to weddings of two coalition MPs in 2006, including to the nuptials of embattled former speaker Peter Slipper.

Documents obtained by The West Australian under Freedom of Information laws show Mr Irons repaid $10,863 in domestic flights and Cabcharge payments."

The rorts of the Politicians are negligible when compared to what the average bureaucrats & teachers & other public servants cost us in travel rorts & other living away from home allowances & relocation costs. Teachers don't even have to pack their own gear, the Department employs packers to fly in-out when teachers relocate. Most people haven't a clue what goes on out there in travel country.

My goodness, if even half these claims can be proved, then that is a scandal!

And then we have Individual, comparing teachers 'entitlements' to what these naughty politicians claimed.

Good one Individual.
ROFL...

And then we have Individual, comparing teachers 'entitlements' to what these naughty politicians claimed.
Suseonline,
If you were to look into such claims you'd find you are the far more ignorant one here. What you call entitlements are really nothing more than blatant extortion in the case of teachers. You could only call them entitlements if we were to get value for money from teachers but we don't do we ? Of course politicians should be kicked out if found submitting fraudulent claims. Mistakes in filling out the forms are easily done because of the format of the XL & many have on a number of occasions short-changed ourselves because of this. There are no complaints of course when that happens.

the real worry..is these thieves
selling their moral out..so cheaply
like.a mob..of cheap..hooker's..to the lowest con-man..dominator

common denominator=clue*
betraying..the many..for the few*

lower than the projectile vomit..under their expensive shoe

[thats why..most
are or were in law]
love the high-life..the free lunch..feigning serving you..while stealing you blind..

but also..its inductive..of that..found in the sciences..
finances..in medicines..[especially psychiatry perscripted dopers..no hopers and dentistry]..

service 'delivery''..politicking..
and business/spin..and the green lobby[..heck all..lobbyists]..want your tax..in their pocket..[plus your future earnings..and control..of your pension..for them..its win/win

the spin..is in

the system..is so..rotten..across time
its clear that satans-minions..rule the material roost..everywhere....

even here..hear?
by their FRUITS..will we know them..
[next root out the fruit..seize back..their proceeds of crime..and make em do time..lock up them..and their mates..and get rid of states

shows what a great job Abbott is doing when this is all the abc/fairfax and hangers on can complain about day after day.

Lol Runner.
If it was Julia or Kevin being accused of so many 'travel rorts', you would be screaming those facts from the roof tops!

runner, I think that Abbott has been thrown off kilter by the revelation that Pope Francis is the first genuine Christian in that role in living memory and that his mate Pell is being shown up as an anti-Christian self-server who is as fond as Abbott in the perks of office.

runner,

"shows what a great job Abbott is doing when this is all the abc/fairfax and hangers on can complain about day after day."

That says everything about You and about Abbott.

Candide,

"... I think that Abbott has been thrown off kilter by the revelation that Pope Francis is the first genuine Christian in that role in living memory...."

Yup!

runner you define the word hypocrisy.

At least you and very few others had the guts to comment not like most of the rorting rabbott supporters that usually infest OLO. Cowards.

Pity yours and individuals contributions are thinner than the original article. Try all you like you cant whitewash this outright larceny by rorting rabbott and his thieving minions.

Pity yours and individuals contributions are thinner than the original article.
mikk,
How about trying to prove us wrong with a few figures & numbers ? You can start the ridicule AFTER you've proven us wrong. As it is you're premature.
Can you supply such info asap ?

Individual
This discussion is not about some imaginary benefits that you think teachers get it is about rorting rabbott and his gang of thieves.

Stick to the subject and stop trying to justify rabbotts rabbles behavior by arguing "they do it too". It is just pathetic and childish. If you have a problem with teachers start a new thread.

As for "trying to prove us wrong with a few figures & numbers" How about you have a go at that.

http://imputeation.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/abbotts-age-of-entitlement-tonys-top.html?m=1

Or are you a coward too like the rest of the rightards who to a man have their heads firmly shoved where the sun dont shine.

Thank you, mikk.

For getting back to individual's taunt.

"How about trying to prove us wrong with a few figures & numbers ?"

with this:

http://imputeation.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/abbotts-age-of-entitlement-tonys-top.html?m=1

Here's another indication of Abbott's self-directed largesse...just an example.

Payment of Parliamentary entitlements from from 1 Jan to 30 June 2011...

Julia Gillard $209,282.07

Tony Abbott $508,455.26

"Stop the waste", they said....

by arguing "they do it too".
mikk,
first of all I did not even hint at that, I did say earlier "Of course politicians should be kicked out if found submitting fraudulent claims." I didn't hear you say bureaucrats like teachers making fraudulent claims should be kicked out.
As for your link re Abbott's expenses, yes I find them way out of order yet I did bring up PM pay increases in a thread some time back when it jumped from Howard's 300 Grand to Rudd's 500 grand in just six years. Again none of you came back with a reply despite being asked to comment. Regarding our heads stuck where the sun don't shine, you're confusing us with left-wing academics & bureaucrats.

Poirot,
"Stop the waste", they said.... And they did ! Gillard & Rudd are no longer there.

individual,

$12.1 billion in borrowings since 9 September.

A further 2.6 billion slated for next week.

http://www.aofm.gov.au/content/upcoming_tender_notice.asp

Gullible, aren't you

Just on Don's advice for Abbott.

"The Slipper Business...would that be the one where Ashby, Doane and Brough worked in concert for political purposes? The one which was thrown out of court by Rares J as an abuse of process?

Or the one where Slipper was "anonymously" reported to the AFP for $900 before the Minchin Protocol could be applied?

How does $900 stack up against Mr Abbott's efforts?

"The Thomson business"...an update on civil proceedings.

The former Fair Work Australia - now the Fair Work Commission - have been pursuing Thomson in court now for what now seems like an eternity about civil matters.

These civil claims started out, many may remember, at a headline grabbing figure of over $500,000. This figure has steadily dropped as things like facts and evidence have been taken into account and the figure now is well and truly under $30,000. Although ancient history, publications like The Australian still like to portray the old $500,000 figure as fact despite it being utter fiction....The Fair Work Commission has today requested in court to settle the case through a mediator in a bid to reach a confidential agreement between themselves and Thomson."

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/jacksonville-60-fair-work-commission-case-against-thomson-collapses/

Poirot,
your links show some interesting figures but they're literally pointless unless you provide a split screen with LNP/ALP figures over corresponding periods.

Payment of Parliamentary entitlements from from 1 Jan to 30 June 2011...

Julia Gillard $209,282.07

Tony Abbott $508,455.26

There ya go for starters individual.

Discuss.
Although I bet you just spin, misdirect and try to change the subject.

If this is how "frugal" rorting rabbott is as opposition leader how much will he rip us off as Prime Minister?

Let's face it, Abbott has been gaming the system bigtime for decades. And his reward? The sheeple elected him as their Prime Minister!

"Ah, everything, ah, I do, ah, must be calm and meas...surd, ...calm and meas...surded, ah say! Without haste or rush...or precon...ah, preconditional!"

This must make Australians even dumber than the Yanks who are still trying to work out why you can't spend more than you have.

Yet, Tony 'have rorts - will travel' Abbott attacked Slipper and Thompson mercilessly as I recall.

Politicians! Yuk!



It's called hypocrisy!

There are MPs and Senators from all sides who operate in an ethic-free zone when it comes to 'entitlements', greed and lack of morality occur across the political spectrum. Take the practice of putting down car travel as being from 'suburbs' to 'suburbs'. They can't pretend they don't know where they are (the driver will always know) so the only reasonable assumption is that they don't want us to know. Yet I heard a politician last year saying on TV that this was perfectly reasonable because they all did it. Any car claim that includes the word 'suburb' should be immediately rejected. The problem is that the shysters set their own rules. Take the so-called Minchin solution/protocol - you can claim whatever dodgy thing you like but will never be prosecuted for trying to defraud the Commonwealth as long as you pay it back if challenged. Peter Slipper is only being prosecuted, as I understand it, is because it is alleged he tried to conceal where he had actually been. Before then he was famous for his eye-wateringly high level of accepted claims.

Fair enough, individual.

Here's Abbott's for that period:

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/ABBOTT_Tony.pdf

Here's Gillard's:

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/GILLARD_Julia.pdf

While perusing the figures, you should take into account that Gillard was Prime Minister at the time and undertook various Ministerial overseas trips ($420,410.67).

Abbott made one official visit preceding Jan in this period($728.30)

If we deduct Prime Ministerial official overseas expenses entitlements, Abbott's entitlements outstrip the Prime Minister's by a long shot.

Adding both columns in each itemised expenses.

Gillards adds up to ..... $670,877.22

Abbott's adds up to ..... $590,003.43

Concentrating on the column 1 Jan to 30 June and subtracting Gillard's official overseas' travel as Prime Minister (remember Abbott had none from Jan to June 30)..Gillard's expenses come in at $250,466.55

So for corresponding periods 1 Jan to June 30(minus official overseas travel)

Abbott: $590,003.43

Gillard $250,466.55

....Of course, if you wish to do your own research:

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/

P,

Once again you are being disingenuous, you exclude Juliar's "official" business, but include all of Abbott's.

The left whingers again have to manipulate the data to justify their lies.

What about Juliar's jaunts in the jet for private business?

Sorry, SM?

"Once again you are being disingenuous, you exclude Juliar's "official" business, but include all of Abbott's."

I excluded Gillard's official overseas travel expenses.

Which for 1 Jan to 30 June were $420,410.67

Abbott's, for the same period was $0.00

If Abbott had had significant official overseas travel expenses, I would have deducted them - he didn't.

That most of Gillard's expenses are attributable to official overseas business was my point.

Which goes to the crux of my point - that for someone who spouted he wished to "stop the waste", he appeared quite happy to indulge himself and his office.

P,

Of course from Juliar's budget you have conveniently forgotten the about $1m for the military jet or the chauffeur driven PM car.

Remember, meeting with constituents, is considered official business for opposition leaders.

What about the money Mark Dreyfus claimed for accommodation in Canberra whilst skiing at Perisher. That sounds like fraud.

Poirot,
I won't click on your links because each link simply negates the real question & only serves to prolong pointless point scoring. Call it rorts call it waste call it corruption call it whatever you like. The point is that our money is being wasted. If Abbott or any other politician is rorting then it must be exposed. My other point is that when our money is being wasted who tries to cover the forts ? Those who cover must be expelled if they do not attempt to expose.
Then there is the question of which politicians are wasting more ? Abbott or Rudd/Gillard ? You'll find the latter cost us a hell of a lot more than Abbott thus far. I will not excuse Abbott if indeed he is rorting . It could simply be a set-up like the children overboard by fanatic ALP supporters and, you are one. I find it rather odd that you so easily produce links to denounce Abbott but you were quite slow, in fact you failed to produce links on Rudd/Gillard/ALP rorts.
Having said that I denounce strongly any Coalition people who rort & if I had my way I would expel them from public office unlike Labor who view corruption & incompetence a prerequisite for a political career.

SM,

"Remember, meeting with constituents, is considered official business for opposition leaders."

Yeah, and swanning round the country appearing in cycling events for self-promotional purposes - what's that?...

(Abbott: "It was a marginal seat.")

Lol!

individual,

Suffice to say, that my point is the blatant hypocrisy of the Coalition and their cheer squad here and elsewhere - who have strutted around for yonks, holier-than-thou, pontificating on the subject of their scruples - "stopping the waste", etc...

When all along, they've been merrily rorting away for weddings, parties - anything.....

Hypocrites

Poirot has unnecessarily got himself into a right tizz trying to prove what was stated simply and without all of the dressing at the start:

'If I had advice for the Prime Minister, it might be that he point out to his team the dreadful cost to the Labor Party of the Peter Slipper business, the Craig Thomson business, and even the Julia Gillard business.'

Is there a government or opposition that didn't have a member or even a few against whom allegations of abuse of entitlements and particularly travel allowances were made?

What have made things infinitely worse is the reluctance of the Parliament to hold the very people who make up that house accountable. It isn't just a problem of PMs and their ministers, it is the whole Parliament that has slipped in that respect. It is 'Catch me if you can and you will have to prove it first, but even then I will still continue to deny it'. John Howard for instance demanded that the case be proved against one of his ministers in a court of law before he might ask the minister to resign.

Of course Julia Whatshername's era will always be remembered for lack of accountability and poor ethics generally.

My poor editing again, para 4 should start, 'What has..', not 'What have..'.

The single greatest weakness in Parrot's "travel rort" argument is that all these coalition costs were itemized, detailed, and submitted to the dept of Finance. Not one of these costs has been flagged as not complying with the regulations.

In fact, so far the only the only "rort" that clearly does not comply is Mark Dufus's claim for accommodation in Canberra whilst skiing in Perisher. In fact submitting falsified documents goes beyond the amnesty provided by the Minchin agreement, and puts the perpetrator at risk of prosecution (as Slipper discovered). Not a good look for the shadow AG.

All this ultra-partisan mud-slinging (your lot's more corrupt than my lot, so there nyah nyah) is managing to obscure the core problem.

The rules for politicians' random forays into the taxpayers wallets are totally out of line with any commonsense, ethical or business-like practice.

Simply shunting the blame across the floor will only end in a mutual agreement between the parties that they stop talking about it, and eventually it will go away.

Which, of course, it will.

When it stops being news, it is no longer reported as news. And we, the commoners, are shafted yet again.

Pigs. Trough. Swill.

SM,(Minister for roolly clever namies)

"The single greatest weakness in Parrot's "travel rort" argument is that all these coalition costs were itemized, detailed, and submitted to the dept of Finance. Not one of these costs has been flagged as not complying with the regulations."

Well, that's just fine then.

Obviously you think it's fine and dandy for Abbott to charge the taxpayer for his own and his party's promotion.

When he was requested to repay the $9,400 in Battlelines expenses, it was because Finance were alerted by outside sources, media, etc. and even then he only remitted for the flights and they had to wring the comcar expenses out of him.

Slipper's $900 wasn't identified by Finance either....but....

Pericles,

You have a point.

But Abbott is particularly fond of claiming for "community engagement".

Rob Oakshot, who competed in similar events - said he wouldn't dream of claiming for them.

The Coalition in general appear to think that expenses are their right and privilege. I was particularly impressed with Joyce's "1 day study period" in Malaysia concocted to claim expenses for his travel back from the wedding in India.

well with such a failed selection of leaders all the Labour party can do is still be obsessed with abbott abbott and abbott. How long can such sour grapes go on? the illegals are slowing, the carbon tax looks a good thing to go and labour supporters hate the fact that finally we are seeing a little competence in Government.

To "Pigs. Trough. Swill." we could add 'Dog's breakfast', to yield PTSD...

Or keep "Pigs. Trough. Swill" for the PTS and keep for the D the accurate term, 'Disorder'.

Rorting the system is something I see as very Australian. The sickie, the long lunch at the pub watching the cricket, meh.

Call it perks of the job. It's fun to make pollies squirm though, and they have to be roped in every now and then just like the boss has a quiet word about all the sickies on Mondays.

Such is life.

Anybody with any sense of reality would realize both sides do it. This petty bickering on here makes you all look pretty stupid.

I'm more annoyed about government advertising myself, as it's more in your face. Governments using tax payers dollars to annoy me with political advertising pisses me off. I really see no reason why the government ever needs to 'advertise' anything. I see no legitimate purpose for it ever.

Parrot,

Avoiding answering my question about Mark Dufus?

P.S. Rob Oakeshott is a windbag of note, and certainly couldn't claim for community engagements outside his electorate. TA as opposition leader is expected to operate country wide.

Dudd's private jet expenses in the campaign I believe eclipsed the entire coalition's travel expenses for that period.

PS. The dept of Finance did not pick up that Slipper's cab charge documents were falsely submitted, and would not have been expected to.

runner wrote
"How long can such sour grapes go on?"
What a telling comment runner.
Was it "sour grapes" when rabbott was calling for a new election minutes after the last one was decided?
Was it sour grapes when they went after slipper, thompson et al?
You hypocrite.
If ripping off the taxpayer for everything they can get is competence then you my friend are away with the fairies.

shallow minister wrote
"In fact, so far the only the only "rort" that clearly does not comply"
So you are fine with pollies promoting their books at the taxpayers expense? Entering fun runs, "volunteering", attending social functions all charged to the taxpayer? What next house renovations, the kids schooling, the new pool?

How far could the lieberals go before you rusted on rightards would condemn them?

Shadow Minister,

I'm having trouble justifying my effort to debate someone who spends his time on OLO inventing clever primary school-style names for everyone whom he encounters who have opposing views.

For someone who seems reasonably intelligent in one sense, you sure display an incredible immaturity in that way.

This is a forum for grown ups.

You complain that I don't address your one example....and yet you ignore or make excuses for Mr Abbott's serial practice of claiming expenses for personal projects.

Even if you include the Pollie Pedal as some sort of community/charity expense( once upon a time "volunteering" for charity meant wearing the peripheral expense), I note you haven't criticised his $10,000 dollar claim for Tamworth (not in any official or any ritual capacity) - or his family day out at the Victoria Derby which came in at $5,333.00.

Houellie,

Yes, dear....we're all a bit stupid here at times.

I note that you like to get stuck in with a fine tooth comb whenever the fancy takes you.

As I said earlier, I've listened for years to the holier-than-thou rhetoric of the born to rule Coalition.

They're hypocrites.

Nuff said.

Rorting certainly is engrained in a large part of the community. Think of a) the howls of protest and b) the hundreds of millions of dollars that could have been saved when the Labor government wanted to tighten the reporting requirements on cars so that claims would be limited to people who had a legitimate claim for a vehicle for business purposes. I know a few people who no more need a car to conduct their business than I need a pet whale in my birdbath, yet they get around in very nice sets of wheels they dishonestly claim. Oh look runner, it was your mate Saint Tony Abbott who said this sort of rort was fine by him.

sorry Candide nothing saintly about Abbott unless you are comparing him with Rudd, Gillard, Thomson, Slipper etc. All are born in sin including you and me.

no runner, anyone who has seen a baby knows that the idea that a baby is sinful is just perverted.

P,

For someone that posts "nyuk nyuk nyuk" you are certainly in no position to lecture anyone on maturity.

Secondly, for someone that has simply ignored all the blatant abuses of travel allowances by labor party MPs you are in no position to demand anything.

The prime example of the Poly pedal charity events that Abbott gave up his time to organize and compete in raised millions for charities and organisations to help the community, while Juliar and Dudd swan around in the private jet with a press entourage for photo ops at schools etc to promote a party political agenda. Which is more official business?

What hypocrites you are.

' the Poly pedal charity events that Abbott gave up his time to organize and compete in raised millions for charities and organisations to help the community '

We could all raise money for charity if someone else was paying for staff to do the organising (of course TA didn't do it himself) and all the costs are met by someone else. That isn't genuine charity, its hypocrisy: its just taking the credit for someone else's effort and expense; it's mocking the people who actually do put in the work, and put their hands into their own pockets, not ours.

Candida,

What sanctimonious drivel.

Abbott was one of the founders of the pollie pedal which has raised nearly $3m for charity, and which is run and ridden almost exclusively by Liberal MPs. While the state has contributed to some airfares and some accommodation, there has been no payment for any the expenses involved in the ride itself, most of which occurs over weekends.

This also enable the pollies to stop and interact with many smaller communities that otherwise would never see any of their elected officials. Abbott is involved in volunteer fire fighting, surf rescue, and a host of other charity and community organisations, whereas the finger wagging left whingers sit on their backsides and are never caught actually practising what they preach.

As I said before, this costs the tax payer a lot less than Juliar and Dudd swanning around in the PMs jet for photo ops that are purely to push party political agendas.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-dodgy-pollie-pedal-expense-claims/

As I said, its easy to be generous with other people's money.

And do stop wittering on about other examples of rorting as though they excuse Abbott. They are all at fault.

thanks for demonstrating my point Candice.

Candida,

As you said "its easy to be generous with other people's money."

That should be Labors slogan, having blown through over $200bn of it in 6 years, and left in place spending programs that will take a year or two to reverse.

Thanks for the puerile link to Independant Australia, whose "team" consists entirely of left whinger activists who have probably never lifted a finger to help anyone else, but sit hunched up in front of their computers trying to put together something clever.

Their argument is that as Abbott makes enough money he should never need to claim for community involvement. Noticeably they avoid discussing the legitimacy of claiming travel costs to visit and interact with the voters as the travel allowance was primarily intended.

I guess these vacuous keyboard junkies feel that the pollies should also spend their days at their desks and telecommute with the voters, then they would all look like Dudd the doughboy.

Here's another one, SM:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-costly-indigenous-community-volunteering/

(interesting that the poster on OLO who gets his jollies from calling other posters kiddie names is now caling IA puerile:)

"BY NOW, we’ve all heard it.

As soon as criticism of the LNP’s policies on Indigenous Affairs (or lack thereof) are raised, the default position of LNP members, journalists and the apologists of it in action is rolled out.

Tony Abbott volunteers in Indigenous communities, so we are told.

He goes for a week a year and these statements of “fact” are usually then followed by a barrage of holier than thou tripe about how much Mr Abbott could teach the rest of us…

So sure of this position - so much has it become the accepted reality - that statements from the LNP and journalists come to us on this subject with gay abandon."

"We know this, do we? This just goes completely unchallenged and is gospel truth, is it?

Well, here is what I know:

In August 2012, Tony Abbott did indeed go to Cape York — but it wasn’t for a week or two as Mr Pyne suggests.

It was for 2 days.

It was a working bee of sorts and some of Australia’s business leaders were taken along to volunteer as well. Photos of Abbott with tools in hand were taken and the myth of Abbott the saviour of the Black man had a wonderful photo op.

No problem so far — until you examine the Expenditure on Entitlements paid by the Department of Finance and Deregulation to Mr Abbott for this “Volunteering” trip. On page 12, we find an amount of $9,636.36 taxpayer dollars, spent to fund the hire of a private charter flight for the 2 days."

"On another one of his trips to an Indigenous Community in 2010.....

......cost to the tax payer: $32,545.00. Because nothing says I volunteer to help those in need like a $30k ride in a jet. Oh … and that week or two Pyne talks about? That trip that cost we, the taxpayer, $32,545.00 in flights alone was for just one night!"

P,

Another fabricated beat up from a left whinge mouth piece.

If you read the article, Pynne did not suggest that the trip to Cape York was 2 weeks, and the charter flight was also used to ferry potential donors.

So the Independant Australian is lying again and not even particularly well.

SM,

How boring...

Every time someone counters your partisan penchant for canonising members of the Coalition, you accuse them of "lying".

You spend half your posts here telling your opponent they are lying - and the other half composing kiddie names to paste on them.

Because you haven't got an argument.

It's obvious that Tony Abbott's main contribution to society is promoting Tony Abbott and his party.

And he's fond of using taxpayer's money to do it.

SM,

"If you read the article, Pynne did not suggest that the trip to Cape York was 2 weeks...."

The point was that Pyne was endeavouring to paint Abbott's "volunteering" visits as weeks-long affairs.

"“We know that Tony Abbott works in Indigenous communities at least a week or two a year, and he has said that if he is elected Prime Minister that he will continue to do that and that he will take senior bureaucrats with him. He has done that in Cape York…”"

They're not - they are photo ops and promotional opportunities of much briefer duration.

Shadow Monister, people like Abbott who ensure everyone knows of their supposed holy acts for others, make me sick.

Abbott hasn't got time for all that 'volunteering' now anyway, as he has a country to run!

What with trying to stop a carbon tax that is not going to make any difference to anything, and giving us a second rate broadband system, he won't have time to put on his lifesaver jocks, put out brush fires, or join in Aboriginal dot painting...

It is obvious from the spiteful posts being directed here that the posters responsible have never done any voluntary work themselves.

Because had they ever sat on a school P&C, taken part in the clean-up at the Kindy or given some hours to a church-assisted community help program aimed at supporting old people alone in their homes, they would most certainly have encountered politicians, usually arriving in a muck sweat from a torrid day in the House/Assembly, but still willing to pitch in and help, and give their attention to help lead and solve problems.

I don't know how any of them could get to help us without (say) the car with driver. But always, their help and presence is much appreciated. Even just being there would be enough but many go much further.

Likewise I wonder how many of the politicians' critics on here and in the media have ever been in a responsible job. There is NO time that isn't made up later, no work that can be left, and it follows you home as well.

I get the impression that critics of Abbott's volunteering, who would even diminish the worth of it to the people/clubs/communities concerned(?!), are doing it as much out of ignorance of volunteering and the reality of a politician's life, as out of political hatred.

I would pay for the politicians' transport and out of pocket incidentals and accommodation. Not only are these legitimate claims arising from their work and community expectations of politicians, but it makes very good accounting sense to do it. The car with driver for example fits more into their schedule. Imagine if they had to catch the bus and fit the senior citizens meeting in between debates they could be called upon in the House.

Yes, some politicians side-step their community obligations, but they are soon gone unless they are in a blue ribbon seat that can withstand some erosion in voter support.

Seeing that Suseonline has ripped into lifesaving, something that is very close to my heart and where I have volunteered as have my family for years, I thought she would like to see this,

http://tools.goldcoast.com.au//photo-gallery/photo_gallery_popup_preview.php?category_id=43606&offset=0

Ordinary community-oriented citizens provide many services to the community. They risk the lives in the water, in fires and other rescues.

That a senior politician, now the PM, takes to time to lend support and even models the behaviour himself through competing, is laudable, fantastic!

Maybe not to you Suseonline, but that says a lot about your values and outlook on life don't you think?

otb,

What a load of baloney.

Abbott's volunteering efforts appear to be facilitated by taxpayer's contributions and flanked by photographers and spin doctors.

Those pollies who volunteer without spruiking their efforts to the world and serially claiming exorbitatant expenses are to be lauded.

Abbott is not one of them.

(You wouldn't have a clue as to what volunteer work either myself or Suse have undertaken, so that's baloney as well.)

Poirot,

Old Tin of Fruit, it is very, very obvious from the naivety of your posts that the closest you ever came to doing voluntary work is watching someone else do it on TV. LOL

There would be plenty of people on here who do voluntary work for charities, but London to a brick you are not one of them.

You have no idea and it shows.

Parrot,

Your assertion "Pyne was endeavouring to paint Abbott's "volunteering" visits as weeks-long affairs" is an extremely tenuous interpretation without any foundation. No where does Pynne claim that stays were of a two week duration as you stated falsely as fact. That the one or two weeks a year is not necessarily in one continuous stretch is the most rational and most probable meaning.

You and the other left whingers in the IA are deceitfully misinterpreting Pyne's words, and then attacking him for your fabricated interpretation. I find it difficult to believe for a moment that you are stupid enough not to understand.

Yes, Abbott used it as a photo op, the difference between this and Juliar's or Dudd's photo op at a school, which probably cost more than
$100 000 for private jet, is that Abbott's visit got real funding for the school, compared to Juliar's that gave the kids no more than the chance to chuck a sandwich.

SM,

".....That the one or two weeks a year is not necessarily in one continuous stretch is the most rational and most probable meaning."

Well, that is shame, because if he undertook his volunteering/promotional visits in one solid stretch, the taxpayer would be spared "repeated" charges for charter flights.

Here's the daily update - Don Randall:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/don-randall-dodges-questions-over-expense-claims-for-trip-to-cairns-20131016-2vlx1.html

(Quite impressive - even by Coalition standards)

And furthermore....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-17/call-for-randall-to-resign/5029032

"WA Liberal MP Rob Johnson has called on his federal colleague Don Randall to resign or be sacked over his travel claims."

P,

I find your logic in condemning Abbott for bringing attention to aboriginal schooling, and organizing business funding for the same schools, yet say nothing when Juliar and Dudd spend vastly more on pure Photo ops.

I meet your Don Randall and raise you one Michael Williamson who at the time of being ALP president defrauded the lowest paid workers of over $1m.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-15/ex-hsu-union-boss-williamson-admits-fraud-offences/5022842

Or Craig Thomson Labor MP defrauding the same by paying for prostitutes.

SM,

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/pm-wont-act-on-doubtful-claims-20131016-2vn3u.html

Some one on twitter suggested they should call it the "Pinchin Protocol"...

Very apt.

funny..lost/post..suddenly returned..some-how
re..pre-conditional..clause..

2/aj

quote..aj.<<..“Imagine..a perfect..>>..

this/means..imagine..if*

ie..not..a..real/usage/by definitive..of when..
ie..its..not science..not/even..theory yet..only concept

IMAGINING IF,*

a..<<..neuro-imaging/device..that..*would..allow us..>>

ie..even..IF..neuro-imaging..*cant do..*this
[dreaming/imagining/un-proof/fiction-ing]

cant..do/what?..<<..detect..and interpret..the/subtlest..changes..in brain-function...>>

nor..even..anything much else*!*
but..we live..in..publish/or perish-times..so

*IMAGINE..<<..You might..spend..an hour..thinking>>

then..what you think..
will attract..that you focus on

but..we cant hold focus[fo-cuss]..in..mind..for long
enough..to get anything worthwhile..[like a song..only partially heard..
so..we move..onto..the next/fragment..of simile..to..*make you.."just/react"..to ..*their stimuli.

[our minds are..so/much reactive..to..the smallest distractions/detraction's..[thus i..mediate..on word-sounds..already with-in..the frame..of cont-ext]..[in-flating..per-form..a/word..into word-form]

only..to find..<<..discover>>..the ILLUSORY..

<<..that..the scientists..scanning your brain..can..inform
/a..complete record/moments..in..lol..advance..of each event...For instance,..>>

any..fore-instance..
is clearly..dreaming/fiction/hope

the..first quote..was interesting
but..even then....in what..con-text..with the..later..con-text

<<..The experimenters..found two..brain/regions..
that contained..information..about which*..button subjects..*would press..a full..7 to 10 seconds..before..the decision..was consciously made>>..

[not made/executed]

i..would say..they..prejudged..which button..they would push..at the next-impulse*..to push..arrives..#..its..like saying..if*..there is#..a fire..i will..leave..out/of..*that fire exit

all..science/could tell..
is that..a choice..was made..
[not which..fire-exit..you..*plan to use*..
WHEN/if..the need arrives..[their..predicament=is..my..prejudgment]

<<..direct/recordings..from..the cortex>>

[physio-motor cortex?]..
that needs..*relay..the choice/timing..of act?

<<..showed that..the activity..[in the..motor/cortex]..
of merely 256 neurons..was sufficient..to predict..with 80 percent accuracy..a person’s decision..to move 700 milliseconds..before..he.>>

[he/who?][subjective/witness..
or measured objective?]..before..<<..HE*?.. became aware..of it.>>

yes..i heard..the same EXCUSE..given..that
that is why..its IMPOSABLE..to/hit.a cricket ball..[or stop a goal..to actually..catch..[or hit]..the ball..WHICH..comes faster..than..the 3/4..of a..second..for/ball..to cover..the distance

in affect..the batter..or goalie
ALWAYS..NEEDS*..initiate..his movement..pre-dicatively*

[inductively]
..well..before..the ball moves..they
essentially..must/necessarily..[[see..into the future*]..
be-cause the ball..moves..over..the distance..in lesstime..than motor-neurons..[cortex]..can initiate the re..quired movement.

noting in..the spirit/realm's..
the goalie..reads in advance..the pitchers intention
[sport..thus always gets boring..as others..read/our intention..
before*..we even..have decided..just as..we..*can read them./.[read their aura'l..movement..intente']..[they read..ours.

no*..secrets..in..the next/life.

[aura communications]..[active/predictive/reductive]..
nothing..un-seen..[pre-veiled]..that shall..not be revea-led]

back..to jesus words
http://miraclevision.com/acim/urtext/acim-urtext-2003-upe-ready-edition.pdf

God..offers..ONLY mercy.
Your..own words..should..ALWAYS reflect..only mercy..
because..that is what..you have..received,..and will expect returned..and..that is what..you should GIVE.

Justice..is a..temporary-expedient,..or..an attempt..to teach man..the meaning/of..mercy../.Its JUDGMENTAL/side..rises..only because man..is capable..of INJUSTICE..if that is..what his mind creates.

You..are afraid..of God’s will..because
you..have ab-used..your..own will-freely,..which
He..created..in..the/likeness..of..His own-will,..to mis-create.?

debate?

<<..What..you do-NOT realize..is that
the mind..*can miscreate..only when..it is..NOT free.

An/imprisoned-mind..is not free..by definition.
It..is possessed,..or..held back,..away..by ITSELF.
Its/will..is therefore/limited,..and not..free..to assert..even..it-self.

Considering the hundreds of $bns of taxpayers money that labor has squandered Labor has a dirt campaign to dredge through the last decade of records of only Lib spending to see if they could come up with something that sounds dubious.

It was good that Mark Dufus got hoisted on his own petard.

Considering that it is Labor's Speaker that is being charged with criminal activity, they should hang their heads in shame.

SM,

And I note that you don't see any hypocrisy in Slipper being up on charges, while many Coalition members have been undertaking a rortathon?

Don Randall is allowed to pay back his $5,000 odd claim - no explanation - zilch.

You appear to believe that's all above board.

Says just as much about you as it does about them.

There is a problem for all of us because
we simply can't as a nation thrive
when a significant portion of those in
power are in denial about reality, whether it
is about the facts of climate change, the worth
of women, the ethnic composition of our population,
or the behaviour of our MPs:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/mps-behaving-badly-were-fed-up-with-them-20131016-2vmtc.html

P,

Slipper is not up on charges for claiming outside the scope of the entitlements, he is charged for fraud along the lines of Thomson, Williamson, Obied, and many other Labor crooks.

SM,

Your comments get more amusing as you go along.

Joyce is flown to a wedding in India. In order to claim expenses for the return trip, he appears to have confected a 1 day " study period" in Malaysia filled with information easily sourced from the net.

Randall's claims are tres suspect and deserve as much investigation as Abbott'S "Battlines'" effort.

And that's only two of the parties that inhabit the Coalition's "good times" group.

I note you're displaying the same level of integrity in your defence of such behaviour.

Lexi,

You are really grasping at straws. Joyce has combined his trip to India with a study trip to Malaysia. Therefore it must be made up? Prove it.

That most of his information from Malaysia can be obtained from the net is true of every study trip, and is not the point. Perhaps the G20 summit could be conducted over the net, and all political travel could be curtailed with MPs just using Google.

What idiocy.

What of the more than $2m Dudd spent on travel in 2009?

I also notice you have no answer for Labor's speaker Slipper falsifying documents.

SM,

A one day "study period" which just happens to coincide with Joyce's return from the wedding in India - and enables him to claim travel expenses for the trip home.

Nice work if you can get it.

Ho, ho,ho,ho......

Parrot,

How pathetic. Only Labor pollies would be stupid enough to organise only one item when on a trip. Can you not conceive of the study trip being moved to coincide?

Last week I went and visited my cousins in Melbourne, the trip being entirely paid by the company. Am I in danger of being fired? absolutely not. I simply had a meeting until 2pm, and arranged to meet my cousins after that. The same goes for politician's visits, and the onus is on the accuser to show that no legitimate parliamentary business occurred on the trip. While nudge nudge, wink wink, might be enough to cast innuendo, it does not in any way constitute evidence.

Considering that YOU personally claimed that Craig Thomson was innocent until proven guilty even with the pile of hard evidence, yet pronounce guilt based on innuendo, you personally are a huge hypocrite.

SM,

Explain Don Randall's largesse to himself?

SM,

Just noticed your last paragraph.

"Considering that YOU personally claimed that Craig Thomson was innocent until proven guilty even with the pile of hard evidence, yet pronounce guilt based on innuendo, you personally are a huge hypocrite."

You were the one arguing against the presumption of innocence in Thomson's case.

I'm not presuming anything particular regarding Mr Randall - but he has offered no explanation of his fishy expense claims.

I'm saying they should be "investigated."

I'm saying that many politician's expense claims should be investigated...that most of them appear to emanating from the Coalition is merely the way it is.

I'll also point out that the former FWA's civil case against Thomson has collapsed.

(We're all hypocrites to some degree...I'd be battling to surmount your particular skills in that area...you're a stunner in that regard)

P,

I actually took the 10 minutes to look into Barnaby Joyce going to the wedding in India, that you could easily have done.

His study tour was approved by Finance (as study tours are) long before he was invited to the wedding, he simply moved the tour to coincide with the wedding. The tax payer never paid for him to go to the wedding or for accommodation there, in fact, the cost to the tax payer was reduced.

As far as Craig Thomson was concerned I was claiming that he was guilty based on the hard evidence against him, and in his trial he has disputed none of it. The FWA civil claim has not been dropped, but has gone to mediation. The option of court is always available, but as he is likely to be bankrupt, The FWA is likely to be trying to save the taxpayer money.

At least you have dropped the stupid comparison of Slipper's case with the rest.

alex/downer/aka..shades/quote..<<His study tour..was approved by Finance (as study tours are) long before he was invited to the wedding, he simply moved the tour to coincide with the wedding.>>

guess he is lucky..
his low wage/teachers.were able to..accommodate his whim

these SPUR of the moment
ego ergo/weddings..[weeding]..can be so wearying..so much to learn
so many bosses/master exploiters..to appease..

oh..please alexandra
you bring on a downer

its all lies..study tours my butt
in what universe is selling out..study?
its such a nice peer lobby support wurk perk..[puke]

[hang-on..we could get a govt run..by students
they could squeeze in..representing their pals..between weed-dings

its funny how when..he was your slipper
you didnt stick..the boot..into your own slipper..
only after..he gave you the boot..did you slip in..the boot into the slippery slipper..double dipper

anyhow that reminds me alex-sandra..
you..looked great in..them fish-nets/high heels..but mate the lippie?

SM,

That' Study period" was one day long.

Can you direct me to literature that defines Finance's role in "approving" study tours? (serious enquiry)...I was under the impression that pollies merely defined what the expenses were for when putting in their claim.

In any case, a 1 day "study period" so conveniently timed in order to claim travel expenses - should be investigated. It is so obviously questionable, I can see why you are trying to dismiss it.

I didn't say FWA's civil case against Thomson had been dropped.

I said it had collapsed.

It has.

Going from 500 charges to FWA requesting mediation is a collapse.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/margaret-rivers-traffic-jams-draw-sydney-mp-john-alexander-20131021-2vx7f.html

P,

At the moment, I don't presently have the time (maybe later) to find the info again, but study tours are not governed by the same provisions as the travel entitlements and require a justification and prior approval. The study covers travel both ways, accommodation and other expenses.

Barnaby was offered free travel to and from India, and as part of the study had budgeted travel to and from Malaysia. The timing of the study was as I said previously not a coincidence and saved Gina travel costs, the tax payer travel costs, and Barnaby a lot of travelling time. Do I need to explain it any more simply?

Secondly your understanding of legal proceedings is scary as a civil trial does not include "charges", but financial claims, and mediation is often a precursor to a court trial, generally prefered because it is far cheaper and less time consuming, however, if no resolution is achieved, it moves to a full court case.

Considering that Thomson is near bankrupt, the FWA spending a hundred thousand or more on a court trial, getting a judgement of a couple of $100 000, and Thomson declaring bankruptcy and only paying a pittance is not very smart.

Yes, SM...I regretted inserting the word "charges"...I knew you'd pick up on it (fair enough)Wish we could correct posts sometimes : )

Who do you think you're kidding with this?:

"....and mediation is often a precursor to a court trial, generally prefered because it is far cheaper and less time consuming, however, if no resolution is achieved, it moves to a full court case."

As if the FWA gives a stuff about Thomson's financial situation.

They started out with 500 claims, which was slowly dwindled to around 30.

The reason they have requested mediation is their case has all but collapsed.

Will also ask...what do you make of Don Randall claiming expenses for travelling to "Melbourne"...

For a "sitting of Parliament"....

On a Sunday.....

?

P,

I despair!

How can the FWA case have collapsed? Thomson has in his criminal case is not contesting any of the evidence presented, in other words he has admitted that all the evidence presented is correct. The trial is thus only to determine his level of intent and to determine the sentence.

The effect of this is that he cannot contest any of this evidence in the civil case either. A civil case would then again be not to determine whether he is responsible (as he has already admitted this) but simply to determine the extent to which he can be held liable and the sum of money which he has to pay.

Given that he is near bankrupt, and hardly has a pot to piss in, a judgement against him for a sum many times greater than he can pay is pointless, and mediation is a recognised way to determine a reasonable settlement.

SM,

"....Thomson has in his criminal case is not contesting any of the evidence presented, in other words he has admitted that all the evidence presented is correct...."

Not true.

His lawyer said "there would be little dispute or debate about the facts of the charges"...which should not be taken as Thomson not contesting them.

Read this unambiguous statement by Thomson:

http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?id=102173&sid=26U5&ext=PDF&lcl=STATEMENT-BY-CRAIG-THOMSON.pdf&usr=DobellThommo&doc=154664867&key=key-iac8ab59kkyiyrrj3l8

Therefore, your statement - (and entire post):

".....The trial is thus only to determine his level of intent and to determine the sentence."

....is simply balderdash.

Parrot,

You are determined to go down fighting a rear guard action.

First, there was no adverse finding yet by the FWA, so there was no case against CT.

Next, CT was not being prosecuted, So there was no case.

Next CT was being prosecuted, but had not been found guilty, So CT was innocent.

Now CT has admitted to all the evidence incl
that his card was used to pay for prostitutes and verified with his drivers license and a signature that was verified as his.
A hotel room rented by him received a call from this same brothel at roughly the same time.

But as CT has put out a short letter claiming he intends to fight this it must all be OK? What planet do you live on?

SM,

CT has not admitted to all the evidence.

You are buying the garbage put out by MSM regarding the ambiguous comments of CT's lawyer.

He released that statement to clarify the issue.

Some MSM included it in later reports to clear up the matter.

What is it about this that you don't understand?:

(Craig Thomson statement)

".....Despite some media reports, I am not making any admissions....."

He has admitted nothing.

You are a spinner, SM.

A partisan spinner who would deny anyone he didn't approve of the presumption of innocence.

Let's hope your type are a minority in the community.