Well Patricia, it seems like we are not going to get much of a change where it really counts:

Shorten backs a bigger Australia: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/09/25/shorten-backs-bigger-australia

Same old same old senseless endless pursuit of expansionism, with the same old mindset: growth is good and only good, and faster growth is better!

Don’t worry about the enormous demand for services and infrastructure created by rapid population growth. Don’t worry about our struggles to address the current services and infrastructure problems, which are immense and forever worsening. Don’t worry about having to have an ever-bigger economy, with evermore mining and agricultural output in order to service the domestic community and supply export income... in order to just try and maintain the same average quality of life! Don’t worry about striving to live within our means. Don’t worry about the imperative of achieving a sustainable Australia!

In short, Shorten is short on logic, and just totally on the wrong track.

And I can’t imagine Albo would be any better.

We ABSOLUTELY need Labor to pursue Gillard’s ‘sustainable Australia’.

THIS is the essential change that we need as a nation. If Labor was to undertake it, I would have no doubt that it would overwhelmingly meet with support from the ordinary Australian folk and would set them up in a winning position at the next election.

The key words here are recapturing Labor values and principles! Implying as they so accurately do, that they've lost them. To more or less morph with the conservative side of politics, and open up the left for minor parties, like the anti jobs greens?
All human progress has had its foundation in the contest of ideas, and those with the courage of their convictions.
As a boy I listened to Doctors pooh hooing the idea that too much cholesterol was bad for your cadio vascular system! Then later as an adult, that bacteria rather than stomach acid caused most if not all ulcers! Courage of conviction alone, changed those antiquated views!
We do need a vision for our future and someone strong enough to express them, rather than simply say, we must have one!
That vision has to include rapid rail, sooner or later!
And if it's later it could be doubly or triply expensive.
Delayed for around a decade, the price of infrastructure invariably doubles, in real terms.
Meaning, we not only can afford to do it now, we cannot afford to delay doing it!
Rapid rail, will provide all manner of sustainable economic boosts and development.
It will allow us to defer any second Sydney airport indefinitely.
And as various links are completed, they will begin to generate funds. Funds that could then pay for the rest of a progressive roll out.
We also need to build an inland shipping canal. This will bring permanent reliable water to our arid inland and allow the agricultural development of a formerly arid area.
The additional atmospheric moisture thereby generated, could create its own micro climate, which in turn could green vast tracts of former desert heartland! This is exactly what happens in the lakes district and rain forests of central Africa!
We can't afford it?
That's because we've never ever tried to fund essential infrastructure, with thirty year self terminating bonds.
Safe haven thirty year self terminating bonds would be a natural fit with the big super funds, and immediately upon issue, put downward pressure on house prices!
Rhrosty.

Future vision also has to include quite massive tax reform and simplification. This will require considerable courage, given the powerful vested interests welded to the present convoluted complexity, with a tax loophole on every page!
Billionaires and the world's most powerful financial entities; some with annual budgets larger than sovereign nations, will fight tooth and nail, to keep most of the current tax avoiding complexity! Count on it!
You can't unscramble an omelet is the usual first response!
Or, if only we were beginning, implying, that we are virtually powerless to usher in essential reform!
Essential unavoidable reform, demanded by the approaching destiny of demography!
True, you can't unscramble an omelet; but if the dam thing is completely rotten the the whole rotten mess should be thrown out.
Yes there will be losers, but hey. the simultaneous creation of a brand new people's bank, would create an alternative career/wealth creation pathway for our own; or, nearly all those who could be adversely affected by the proposed reform and massive simplification!
Future vision that does not include quite massive tax reform, will be a pale imposter of future vision!
Rhrosty.

From what I see of Shorten and others, the only thing that can make Labor viable at the next federal election will be a very bad Coalition govt.

In other words, it will need luck, just as the Coalition had with a poor Labor govt in recent years.

Too many Labor people live in the past, referring to the supposed superior prowess of Labor.

Let's see Labor come up with solutions for the future in these difficult times, which I doubt are going away.

The Labor party was born in the aspirations of working people for the coming of socialism. They dreamt of a fairer and more productive society based on the public ownership of the means of production. Like Marx, they never actually *thought through* how production would be organised under public ownership, or *why* it would be more productive.

As soon as real socialist parties came to power, they were confronted with the question: *how* to replace capitalism with a fairer and better system? Everything they touched turned to sh!t. Lenin tried to abolish money and collectivise agriculture, with the result that millions starved to death.

Seeing that pursuit of full socialism would destroy society and the State, they immediately resiled from their core principles. They allowed some private ownership (1% of privately held land accounted for one third of food production). But they pressed on with socialism in other areas where they dreamt of getting something for nothing by taking it from someone else. The kleptocracy collapsed quicker the purer socialism was tried.

In 1920 Mises categorically demonstrated that socialism is not possible *even in theory* without regressing society back to the level of barter and causing hundreds of millions of deaths in the process:
“Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth”
http://mises.org/pdf/econcalc.pdf

Still the socialists lacked the intellectual honesty to either accept or refute Mises argument (they still haven’t refuted it).

Socialists everywhere turned to the more watered-down version of national socialism, of which the most notorious example was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Property is held in nominally private hands, subject to the State’s overriding prerogative to dictate or appropriate whatever it wanted.

This could only be viewed as “right wing” from a starting point of full socialism.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
Adolf Hitler
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/

(Google “Hitler economic policies” and see if you can find any that today’s Labor party *disagrees* with.)

In the west, socialism was lionised in the intellectual class. The market rate for their services is low precisely because the ordinary working people don’t value such services. But the State – being literally a legal monopoly of aggression, extortion and fraud - has a never-ending need of legitimisation, and access to ready funds. So the State and the intellectual class form a symbiosis as between themselves; and a parasite as between themselves on the one hand, and the productive class of businesses and workers on the other. It is in the interests of the parasite class and its indoctrination arm to spread Marx’s false exploitation theory of employment, even though all Marx’s predictions proved wrong, and the living standards of the workers have risen to their highest levels in the history of the world under capitalism.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the conceited invincible ignorance Labor supporters talking of Labor’s “new world”. Let’s get one thing straight. In the final analysis, all Labor has got is socialism, or deserting its principles. That’s it.

The result in practie is the ugly amalgam of corrupt wasteful thuggery that so disgusted the electorate in the last government. Either Labor pursue the dystopian socialist dream of government monopoly bureaucracies running every aspect of human life; in which case all they are doing is re-packaging the same old sh!t sandwich, endlessly re-named each time it fails, from communism to socialism, to national socialism, to democratic socialism, social democracy, the New Deal, the Third Way, the green economy, the blue economy, the “new world” – anything the ignorant will fall for.

Or they degenerate into a party of mere kleptocracy – pandering with no principle to whatever self-entitled group try to use the State to gain above-market privileges to live at everyone else’s expense, or crawling to whatever opinionated intolerant want to force everyone else to obey them. That’s it. That’s Labor’s “same old same old” brave new world.

Thanks Jardine, for giving us a completely distorted view of LABOR and a biased notion of corporatism and capitalism. It sounds as though you worship them. Perhaps you have a color photograph of Rupert that you light a candle in front of each night.

People who worship greed and inequality are lowlife. They have no conscience or morality. We live in a world of finite resources where many people live in poverty or are starving but the greedy and the money-grubbers don't care as long as they are living in ultra-luxury!

Abbott is a clone of Howard. It won't be long before he begins to advantage the rich and clobber the poor. His paid-parental leave is his first move.

There is no nobility in greed. Greed brings out all that is loathsome in humans. It also generates endless wars.

Greed is a dirty word!

On the one hand Rhrosty
You are on the money with this, if I may be so bold to add that the NBN was visionary but sadly it appears it will become another railway system with different gauge lines. I can see future generations shaking their heads in disbelief at the lack of vision in not rolling the NBN out as originally intended. As we can see by the new policy, it's all about short term spending with an eye on the next election and apparently no consideration for 10-20-30 years down the track, as is the case with most infrastructure projects. One has only to look at the approach to road and bridge building to see tangible evidence of this fact
Your proposition for funding(although I am just an average bloke)makes good sense to me but would likely be dismissed as simplistic by those who assume to be our betters

On the other hand Ludwig
I often wonder about the constant craving for economic expansion which to me means a vicious circle of bigger profits, higher wages,greater cost of basic necessities and people left behind on an unemployment scrapheap. Where does it all end? (in tears I suspect).

Patricia
Having a policies that risk upsetting big business and what's in it for me? sections of the population with a 'be happy with what we have/live within our means/let's raise the living standards of those less fortunate in our society' and being able to effectively communicate with the electorate are but 2 issues that the next ALP leader needs to address.
The ALP needs to be different and stop trying to be all things to all people. They seem to be heading in the right direction getting the rank and file more involved. Perhaps making themselves more accessible to the wider community would be helpful. Several years ago I tried to meet with a local Senator, her office hours were the same as my working hours. I was disappointed at the lack of flexibility/availability.

Well JKJ, on some points one can agree with you. But let's not confuse democratic socialism with the communistic manifesto of Lenin and or Marx!
Most of Scandinavia is arguably, democratic Socialism? Yet most of Scandinavia allows and encourages private enterprise.
In fact, Volvo Australia, is one of a few vehicle manufacturers, we don't have to subsidize!
However, those from the home of extreme capitalism and greed is good, Ford and Chevrolet, always seem to have the hand extended!
Moreover, the privatization of power and gas, has never ever resulted in lower prices.
And privatization simply overlooks the social benefit and the lower operating costs of energy dependent enterprise.
Brisbane NG rose by around 400% within months of privatization!
And the so-called natural cost doesn't include obscene salary entitlements, servicing massive borrowings,or dividends.
And then we moan about the rising cost of getting by!
Tiny Norway leaves us in its wake with an income earning sovereign fund; and, when it comes to education excellence; which by the way, is universally funded by the state.
Scandinavia not only makes trucks and all manner of manufactured goods, but has an aircraft industry as well!
Smaller resource poor nations, doing things we continually tell ourselves, we can't do!
Our so called leaders tell us, we need to sell our souls to foreign carpet baggers to get them to do it for us, all while charging us well over the odds for the privilege.
We could take a leaf from the Scandinavian book/Celtic Tiger and promote cooperative capitalism, the only way to a prosperous future; and or, invest in our own people and their better ideas.
Co-ops and innovative family firms are our future.
They still operate under the capitalistic profit model, but rarely if ever get too big; and, all the shareholders contribute with their labour and skills.
Which is the reason, that the cooperative business model, survived the Great depression, largely intact!
One has to wonder at the wisdom of conservative leaders/economic illiterates, who seemingly couldn't wait to dismantle our co-ops, or privatize cash cow essential service?
Rhrosty.

So here we have a lady who describes Gough Whitlam as legendary. Wow!

Looking down the page we find she has a PhD from the University of Sydney in social policy studies.

God what on earth are they teaching in our universities? Legendary Gough Whitlam, what, in his own lunchtime?

I had no idea labor had it so wrong they still worshiped at the feet of that incompetent old fool. No wonder they are in such desperate trouble. With that sort of thinking, no wonder they could come up with a Rudd or a Gillard.

Then this stupidity of longing for a visionary leader. Please if you find one, bury them deep in an abandoned Coober Pedy mine shaft, visionary leaders are the last thing we need. Remember Hitler, & Attila the Hun were visionary leaders.

What we need is a good manager, who will stop the waste & rorts, then get out of the damn way, & let us get on with it. A new John Howard will do, & we just may have one.

Unfortunately we will never get one of these from Labor, as they are always running around, like this author, chasing some mythical messiah. Someone who will pick them up, & lead them to the promised land.

For god sake you fools, the only promised land is the one you build yourself. So drop those rose coloured glasses, & pick up the bleeding shovel.

Wow! A whole essay about the Australian Labor Party and hardly a single word about workers. Remember them? You know … the chumps who do all that ‘labor’?

Ironic that she mentions the year ‘1891’, because the workforce that Australia is rapidly morphing into has far more in common with the 1890s than today – diminishing permanent jobs, zero contract labour, creeping casualisation, unpaid internships, single-digit hourly rates, 12-hour days, work-till-you-drop ‘retirement’, minimum wage under threat, workplace safety compromised, weak union representation (or none at all) … and on it goes.

Perhaps they could just drop the word ‘Labor’ and call it the Australian Party. Or how about the Boiling Frog Party?

My memory may be deceiving me, I'm trying to remember John Howard's lasting legacy to the nation.

Universal health care?

Giving a generation access to affordable tertiary education?

Ushering in the era of dog whistle politics?

Using smoke and mirrors economics to appear to be running a budget surplus?

Increasing middle class welfare to economically unsustainable levels?

Taking us into a war based on lies and corporate greed?

Despite believing Medicare a failure and repeated attempts to dismantle it, failing to do so?

I need some help here

Well just for you Phil, unlike Hawke & Keating, who gave us huge interest rates, [I remember getting 17% on a 4 month deposit], & a freeze on wages, [remember the accord], under Howard;
Interest rates went down.
Employment went up.
Bankruptcies went down.
Wages went up & net incomes went up more.
Taxes went down.
And the bloody boats stopped.

Now if either of the last 2 could claim even a couple of those results there is a fair chance they could still be there.

Now I remember "We will decide who comes to Australia, just use the entry marked 457"

Phil the latest technologies are starting to be based on the current development of chips implanted in the brain. Of course that depends on wireless connection to the internet. When you get your chip implant through which of your oriffices would you like us to connect your fabulous NBN cable.

Phil john howard respected our desire to maintain soverign borders.

David G research envy. Do you realise you are appearing overly familiar with the concept?

Oh you are smart aren't you Phil. You wouldn't be an academic now would you.

The elephant in your argument old chap, is that those 457 folks have to work, & pay tax, & rent. I saw statistics that 80% of boat people are still in public housing, living on welfare after 5 years.

I can see which you prefer, but most of us disagree with you.

Hasbeen
You wouldn't happen to be a middle class redneck now would you?
I'm just a bloke who has traveled and worked in and around some of the countries these "boat people" are fleeing, with a firm grip on reality, that would rather see people that are already living in Australia trained and employed here. It could be helpful to remember some of these "boat people" are coming from countries where Australia has been engaged in war
I make no excuses for the economic refugees and they should not be accepted as anything else. However the majority are found to be genuine and should be treated as such.
Where did you see the statistics for "boat people" ? I'd like to see them myself

imajulianutter
I'd much prefer a cable connected to every house and business, the chip in your head seems not to be able to create well thought and communicated comment
All John Howard did was hi-jack Pauline Hanson's popularity and shut her up with a bit of time in jail