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The Forum > Article Comments > On the turning away > Comments

On the turning away : Comments

By EJ Cook, published 28/8/2013

The tectonic plates of Australian politics and society are shifting. Australians are not becoming disillusioned with the political landscape - it has already happened.

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An excellent article but what is the solution. The two major parties are dominated by religious and economic interests that are opposed to the opinions and interests of most young people. Only when people are prepared to play politics and show leadership will things change. And there is not much sign of that.

Syd.
Posted by Syd., Wednesday, 28 August 2013 9:25:12 AM
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< Increasing numbers of Australians are demonstrating, through their vote, that they don't think any party is worthy of their support, and are foregoing their democratic right to have a say in who runs the country. >

EJ, nowhere near enough people are demonstrating this through their vote! Far too many people are still voting for a party that they really don’t like, don’t support at and don’t want as their government! They are doing this on the basis of their choice being only slightly less unpalatable than the other big party!

The compulsory preferential voting system is strongly perverting democracy by giving a highly false indication of support for the winning party!

If we had the optional preferential voting system at the forthcoming election, we’d at least get a considerably truer indication of peoples’ choices. With CPV, which compels you to mark every square, your vote can get STOLEN and made to count where you specifically don’t want it to… especially if you don’t want to vote for either of the major parties!

So those who choose not to vote, or at least for a good portion of them, are NOT foregoing their democratic right at all... as this right never existed in the first place!

Indeed, anyone with a conscience who doesn’t like either of the majors (and how can anyone with a real conscience possibly like either of them enough to vote for them?) should NOT register a vote!

Under CPV, in most cases you can’t vote for a minor party or candidate without your vote trickling down and counting for one of the majors, even if you put them last and second last!

¿How disgusting is that?
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 9:43:05 AM
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Great article by EJ Cook. Australia's youth must not ignore the importance of active engagement in democratic processes for delivering progressive policy and better social, economic and environmental outcomes. Instead of forgoing their democratic right to have a say who runs Australia and how it should be run, they should become politically active and demand better outcomes and far better leaders. Perhaps it is time for Australia to have an Australian Youth Party which will challenge the major players and come up with creative and effective solutions to the most pressing issues facing them and our great nation.

Australian Macedonia youth are very upset with the very poor policies of the major parties. First, they are deeply concerned about Australian foreign policy towards Macedonia which has been exposed to institutional discrimination and deligitimisation by Australia since 1994. They are also deeply concerned about jobs, cost of living pressures, HECS debt, health, social inclusion, refugee policies etc. Australian youth must become the new power brokers in society because the existing mob are only interested in power and profits at the expense of society. Australia deserves better.
Posted by Macedonian advocacy, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 10:24:06 AM
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Thanks, you've all got some good points.

I think some young people are politically active. Look at GetUp! with their 600K+ volunteers, many of them young people. They're not a political party, but they're looking to exert political influence - and they're having some success, which is great for those people who volunteered to be part of it, as they can see that what they put their effort into does sometimes pay off. But a % of 600K joining GetUp! is still far less than the million eligible voters who don't think any of the major parties are addressing their concerns. Also, it's taking a side way into political influence through a lobby/advocacy group rather than a political party.

It's hard to see what would entice young people to join the ALP or LNP. When young people are looking to get involved in things, they want opportunities to learn, be part of a team, a chance at holding responsibility and effecting real change. If they don't see these as likely to happen, they won't join in.

I think 40% of young people not even enrolling is a pretty dismal statement on our current political system, and doesn't bode well for the future as we lose older voters and the younger ones are completely disengaged. I wonder if OVP vs CVP might also reduce informal votes from incomplete ballots? That was almost as high a number as blank ballots last election.
Posted by EJ Cook, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 10:28:20 AM
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While I can understand the angst of the author, she will come out the other side. 15 years ago or so I felt similarly and then two federal elections ago, while looking at the federal ballot paper I realised that our democracy itself was alive and well ! How did I know this ? my ballot paper was replete with choice. What I did recognise though is that people don't really want to change, if they did they woudn't keep voting for tweedlee dum or tweedle dee.

I do understand that our democracy is a reflection of times past and desperately needs updating so I can support the polices I want regardless of their source, a more liquid form of democracy but I alos understand the majority of voters have no interest in change, emminelty obvious in thier choices reflected in our

I empathise completely with people that feel no Party represents their needs. Of all the parties, only the Greens offer me any solace with their liberal policies but I disagree completely with their environmental polices. You will never be represented under our current system because you can't vote on policy.

John Howard was wrong, the only wasted vote is one cast for either the ALP or The LNP. The only way to change things is to not vote for either of these two loony* parties, preference them last and second last. You will NOT see any change until that happens on a large scale.

In saying that, how to you represent the voters ? Just look to comments and articles on here to see a disparate and hugely variant point of view. If you wanted to be in Government you have to be elected, that means you have to appeal to the majority of voters, that same analogy means McDonalds is the best.

* I use invective to apply the same strategy they use to describe other minor parties in an attempt to persuade people not to vote for them
Posted by Valley Guy, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 10:31:53 AM
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<< I wonder if OVP vs CVP might also reduce informal votes from incomplete ballots? That was almost as high a number as blank ballots last election. >>

EJ, I’d love to know just how many people made their voting intentions perfectly clear but had their vote annulled because they failed to number every square.

I reckon that there would be lots of people out there who understood that they didn’t need to number every square in their state elections where the OPV system applies but didn’t realise that it is fundamentally different at federal elections under the CPV system.

Whichever way you look at it, CPV is profoundly disgusting.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 11:19:01 AM
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I think if we had a true democratic system, such as Switzerland, then ALL Australian people would become much more actively engaged in politics. In Switzerland, with Citizens Initiated Referenda (CIR) laws and policies are initiated from the people up, rather than imposed down on them from elected 'representatives'. Elections and the voting public have zero say in what happens in this country, and have not done so for decades. It is not just 'young people' who feel uneasy about the situation, most people are vaguely aware that there is something fundamentally wrong with a system that effectively disenfrachises the majority with an illusionary cloak of 'representation'. If we had CIR, public disinterest would be mobilised to such an extent those toxic, vomit swilling, swamp dwelling, bottom feeders calling themselves 'politicians' would be hard pushed to get jobs at Burger King.
Posted by Cody, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 11:55:43 AM
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<< EJ, I’d love to know just how many people made their voting intentions perfectly clear but had their vote annulled because they failed to number every square. >>

I'd love to know too! It's very hard to tell though, how many people's incomplete ballots are due to not realising they need to number every square to be counted vs sending a message that some parties are not worthy of even their lowest preference. Would probably require a researcher to actually phone poll people post-election asking if they numbered every box, and if not why not? Perhaps Newspoll or Galaxy could do it?
Posted by EJ Cook, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 12:16:33 PM
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What tripe. Nicely written, but still tripe. You should stop trying to project your thoughts onto the thoughtless masses, you'll give yourself a headache.

The reason these kids aren't on the roll is they are too slack to bother. The country will be well served the longer these pot & grog addled fools stay off it. A good argument for optional voting, & a better one for increasing the voting age by ten years or so.

Those who submit a blank paper are making no statement, other than they were too slack to look at our situation, & make a decision. The if in doubt do nowt brigade. They are probably sorry they let someone talk them into enrolling.

Your deep analysis of what youth consider important is a bit overblown too. What the change reflects is what was talked about on some current affairs program in the last few days. Surely you are not trying to kid us the youth of today can hold a thought for more than a few hours, or days for the more intelligent ones.

Well that goes for half of them, the others might be OK, with a bit of coaching & discipline.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 3:30:53 PM
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I think the author is too pessimistic, and that things have always been much the same. I remember being interviewed before my first vote in 1961 (a referendum to abolish the Legislative Council) and saying:

"I really don't know how to vote. Should I vote "NO" and demonstrate to the mugs in the lower house how little I trust them, or vote "YES" and seize the opportunity of getting rid of 40 politicians at a blow?"

Again, the author should be comforted by the expected surge in religion over the next week. (The electoral Act provides that in the event that you fail to vote, and are sent a request to provide the "TRUE REASON" for your failure, and you reply that you did not vote because it is against your religion, the Act states that that answer shall be taken as conclusive, and no further action will be taken.

The attitude toward elections is not new. Some old adages are:

The tragedy of elections is that the only way you can get rid of the government is to elect the opposition.

Don't vote, it only encourages them.

Being an optimist, I live in hope that one day a party will come up with a program compatible with basic Australian principles, such as:

1. The government is the enemy of the people.

2. No taxation with or without representation, with any deficiency in government finances being covered by the sale of politicians' assets.

3. The main problem with elections is that no matter whom you vote for, a POLITICIAN is ALWAYS elected.

4. ALWAYS vote NO in referendums.
Posted by plerdsus, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 5:38:53 PM
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Oh Hasbeen, come on now.
I reckon E.J is right, but it's not just young people who've decided that politics is irrelevant, I'm 46 and it's just as meaningless to me as it is to my kids. I can't listen to them, like physically can't tolerate them anymore, when a recap of the Bowen and Hockey debate came on the radio this afternoon I switched it off and drove home in silence.
I don't know what their policies are and I don't care, it's nothing to do with me anyway, all I have to look forward to is working until I'm at least 70 or 75 or until I'm incapacitated, whichever comes first, that's what's occupying my mind.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 6:14:27 PM
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Hi EJ,
It only takes 10-15 minutes every 3 years ,to use the preferential system and number on the Senate ballot paper the 110 candidates below the line .
Not a big ask compared to having half one's face or ovaries blown-off in Afghanistan.

By doing this , you can send the only message to the major parties, that they respect .

Every major problem we face from housing, university funding, child neglect, jails, environment, manufacturing collapse, casualization of the workforce, selling public assets, massive public/private borrowings, traffic chaos, growing poverty, social security blow-outs.....(.very happy to dialogue the back stories on all this)...is made catastrophically worse by one design blunder..................POPULATION GROWTH .

By preferencing the STABLE POPULATION PARTY first, then your major party second ( after that, just do the numbering because it won't matter ), we have a chance to turn the place around.

The positive message is that we have designed the mess in, so we can design it out .

Very best EJ ,

Ralph
Posted by Ralph Bennett, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 9:19:39 PM
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Absolutely right Ralph. Population growth is the biggest issue.

If Rudd, who is desperate for a big idea that will gel with the voters and get him back into a winnable position, embraced the idea of a sustainable Australia with a net zero immigration policy at its core, he’d be on a winner for sure!

The masses that have turned away from politics would suddenly be turning back and taking notice if he was to do this.

The big majority of ordinary folk know that high immigration and thus continuous rapid population growth with no end in sight is just bloody MADNESS!

They know that one of the most basic things that our government should be doing is to STOP the demand for everything from constantly growing, so that all the massive expenditure on infrastructure and services can actually start to lead to some improvements instead of just creating more of the same for ever-more people!

If Rudd was to abandon his dumb ‘big Australia’ rhetoric and embrace Gillard’s ‘sustainable Australia’, he’d see a huge increase in support…. and he’d be doing what this country DESPERATELY needs!
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 10:39:09 PM
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Amongst my friends and family I know some school leavers who are so keen to vote that they have made arrangements to vote while overseas, and others who refuse to enroll because they don't like what they see in our political landscape and don't want to be compelled to vote for any of the parties or individuals on offer. The relentless negativity of political discourse has turned them away from the whole process.

Anthony Green was on the ABC this morning explaining how a Barking Mad Party with 1% support can get a Senate seat through preference deals, and how ridiculous our Senate voting system is. The group voting tickets can be checked out here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/gtv/

He also pointed out that we are allowed up to 3 errors below the line and the vote is still valid, although preference allocation will stop at the first error (like 23, 23, instead of 23, 24)which is just as well given the tiny font on the Senate ballot paper. I hope they will be providing magnifying glasses at the polling booths.
Posted by Candide, Thursday, 29 August 2013 9:44:17 AM
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True Ludwig,
If the Greens dropped their ludicrous open border policies and backed zero net immigration I'd probably vote for them, all the rest of their eccentricities I can live with.
I was also thinking of writing something along the lines of "Can Australian multiculturalism survive mass Third World immigration?"
Australia is losing it's diversity, Third World religious fundamentalism sponsored by the "Right" is taking over as the new ideological mainstream and people's minds are closing up, as a conversation with "the man on the street" will reveal.
I like to point out to Liberals and Leftists that none of the things they want will be possible in a country with significant non European minorities, as an example the White middle class support Gay marriage but a more likely scenario is that Homosexuality will once again be made illegal in the near future as religious fundamentalists start really throwing their weight around.
Danny Nalliah is the future of Australian politics and his worldview in parallel with Islam will become the major ideological influences upon the majority of people in this country.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 29 August 2013 12:25:36 PM
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<< If the Greens dropped their ludicrous open border policies and backed zero net immigration I'd probably vote for them, all the rest of their eccentricities I can live with. >>

We are of one accord there, Jay.

Voters are turning away from the Greens at the same time as they are expressing massive disillusionment with the majors. This is most unfortunate. The Greens should be garnering massive support at this time.

If they’d dumped their absurd facilitation of onshore asylum seeking after the Howard era and come out with a stop-the-boats-and-improve-our-refugee-related-overseas-aid-programs instead in 2007 when Rudd dudded us with his corruption of Howard’s border-protection policy, then I reckon they’d be set to become a major political force at this election.

Sarah Hanson-Young epitomises the totally WRONG direction that the Greens have entrenched themselves in regarding asylum seekers. Well, it would appear that she is going to lose here seat.

Gee…. what a pity! ( :> |
Posted by Ludwig, Friday, 30 August 2013 10:32:56 PM
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