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The Forum > Article Comments > Does the ALP have a social democratic vision? > Comments

Does the ALP have a social democratic vision? : Comments

By Tristan Ewins, published 2/8/2013

Or does it stand for small government, corporate welfare, regressive taxation, 'survival of the fittest', 'the top end of town', and a preference for abstract economic goals?

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Also if there are 'diminishing returns' from certain forms of higher taxation - that only increases the need for international co-ordination on the Left - to contain capital flight - which undermines democracy.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Monday, 5 August 2013 11:49:01 AM
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Tristan:

Sweden has had very high rates of taxation for centuries, not decades, and is very much the exception among western nations. The provision of a sovereign wealth fund, (which I would support), is not politically possible at present as no party wants to endure the odium of building up the fund so it could be squandered by its successors. I would imagine that a constitutional amendment would be necessary to prevent politicians getting their hands on it, and even then the restriction could well be ignored. The chances of getting the referendum approved would be minimal (the only referendum I would vote for is one reducing politicians' salaries).
Your thought of international co-ordination to prevent emigration is a pipe dream, as evidenced by Ireland, which still has a company tax rate half its fellow EU members.
The only time high taxes worked was during the second world war, when everyone felt they had to contribute. The regulated, high tax Australian economic model fell apart in the 1970's as our trade partners got back on their feet and we could not compete. This was made worse because we have an economy with a high percentage of imports and exports, which means we must stay competitive. Countries like the US don't have this, and could get by banning all imports and exports.
Surely be best way to meet the infrastructure deficit is the way the Snowy Hydro Scheme was handled. Infrastructure that generates enough cash flow to service its debt and contribute to its sinking fund would be fine by me. The problem is that people want the infrastructure, but don't want to pay for it. An excellent example of this is the NBN, whic is a a classic rural rort (farmers always believe in capitalising their assets and socialising their liabilities). The freight line proposed by the Nationals from Brisbane to Melbourne via Narromine is what should be built.
Posted by plerdsus, Monday, 5 August 2013 4:39:31 PM
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Hi Plerdsus; You say that Sweden is "very much the exception"; but that doesn't explain how there COULD be ANY exception if what you assume re: "the Laffer Curve' was generally true. And in any case it's not ONLY Sweden; It's ALL the Nordics - Sweden, Norway, Finland. And to a significant degree it's true with the Netherlands and Denmark as well.

What you call "high tax" regimes survived throughout Europe for *decades* following WWII. Those regimes were put under pressure with the Oil Shocks in the 1970s - and new attempts to subsidise big business with all manner of corporate welfare. (eg: social programs being cut back to provide the room for corporate tax cuts)

But in 2013 Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Natherlands - all have very substantial welfare states and robust progressive tax systems.

I'm not saying my approach is the ONLY approach. But I am saying it is a CHOICE. Whereas it seems to be you are arguing 'there is no alternative'. That's not borne out by the facts.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Monday, 5 August 2013 5:38:02 PM
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Hi, Tristan,

Sorry for the break but I have been away for a few days. Your loyalty to the principle of high taxes and government spending is admirable, but, I believe, based on a fallacy. The continuing ageing of the population, coupled with medical cost increases well above inflation, indicate that if a government is to balance its books it will have to increase taxes without limit. This will never work, due to the high percentage of the population who mainly work in order to earn money (just like the Beatles song). Another thing militating against a high tax economy is the high and rising number of self-employed, who now outnumber trade unionists. The self-employed only work to earn money, and can scale their effort up or down as the conditions prescribe. Of course a government in the short term can just borrow, and we have seen in Europe where that leads to. So in the long term any economy based on high taxation will collapse as so many have in the last 50 years.
Posted by plerdsus, Thursday, 8 August 2013 6:33:25 PM
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Tristan the only vision Rudd had this time is to be Tony Abbott lite.

And the polls are showing what most Australian think lf that.
Posted by imajulianutter, Friday, 16 August 2013 3:54:52 PM
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