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The Forum > Article Comments > Why invest in the national grid? > Comments

Why invest in the national grid? : Comments

By Mike Pope, published 8/7/2013

In most Australian states the cost of electricity has been rising dramatically and continuously, not because of the carbon tax but, ostensibly, to fund maintenance and upgrade of the national grid.

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This article is junk.

"Ongoing global warming is causing an increase in severe weather events."

Rubbish:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1253&context=usdeptcommercepub&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fscholar_url%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1253%252

The lead author of The Twentieth Century Reanalysis Project, the most comprehensive analysis of "extreme" weather concludes:

As it happens, the project’s initial findings, published last month, show no evidence of an intensifying weather trend. “In the climate models, the extremes get more extreme as we move into a doubled CO2 world in 100 years,” atmospheric scientist Gilbert Compo, one of the researchers on the project, tells me from his office at the University of Colorado, Boulder. “So we were surprised that none of the three major indices of climate variability that we used show a trend of increased circulation going back to 1871."

As for cost of electricity being due to grid updates; that is also rubbish, the bulk of electricity increases is entirely to do with green and renewable energy which doesn't work:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=13995&page=0
Posted by cohenite, Monday, 8 July 2013 12:17:55 PM
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Aside from the fact that there is no 'global warming' to worry about anyway, a shift away from fossil fuels will require an even larger grid than we currently have. A fossil-fuel power plant can be built where it is needed, but the sun shines and the wind blows where they will, and bringing their energy to somewhere useful requires a grid; as do the backup fossil-fuel stations required to supplement them when nature decides to withhold her bounty -- at night, for instance.
Posted by Jon J, Monday, 8 July 2013 1:18:50 PM
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Foyle … You make a very good point re: the Snowy – though it might be argued that its entire output could be fed to (and swallowed-up by) Sydney without a national grid. Another renewable, geothermal, is in the same category and may require long distance transmission to major consumption centres.

You say that … “All renewable energy is dearer than coal based power”. I think that id debatable, particularly given the rapidity with which the price of coal based power has increased every year over the last 5 years and continues to increase. Wind-power is cheaper and PVC may soon be and in the case of domestic displays already is.
Cost of energy to the end-user is what is relevant, not generating cost ex power station.

My understanding is that Liquid fluoride thorium salt (LFTR) reactors do produce radioactive waste which is problematic as is the risk of beryllium poisoning. I think that LFTR’s were trialed about 50 years ago but never deployed because of these problems. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Posted by Agnostic of Mittagong, Monday, 8 July 2013 2:43:45 PM
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Agnostic of Mittagong. A couple of things. Thorium reactors consume most of their fuel! That's why they are cheaper than coal. [We have enough thorium to power the world for six hundred years.] What is left as waste, is far less toxic than that created in conventional oxide reactors.
Moreover, that same waste is eminently suitable as very long life space batteries.

Astronomically expensive Geo-sequestration, is not the only way coal fired power stations might sequester carbon.
In fact some are now trialling companion Algae farming as a means of doing just that.
Algae store (sequester) up to 2.5 times their bodyweight in carbon.
And under optimised closed cycle conditions, quite literally double that absorption/oil production capacity, every 24 hours.
Some algae are up to 60 oil.
Oil that's virtual child's play to extract, (sun dry and crush) and earn an endlessly sustainable profit from.
I've seen economies of scale estimates, that would allow this ready to use as is, oil, able to be profitably retailed for just 45 cents a litre.
The Chinese are now harvesting thousands of tons of a naturally occurring green variety annually.
They report, it makes good omega three oil and protein rich animal fodder and or, organic manure.
One blue/green type produces ready to use diesel, another ready to use as extracted, jet fuel.
Thinking within a fixed circle of limited ideas, limits the questions, and by implication, the answers and available choices.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 8 July 2013 3:43:19 PM
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Batteries are not the only way to store solar energy.
In fact, solar power can be used to create hydrogen, which can then be used in (a) fuel cell)s) to create on demand energy, 24/7!
Some of the latest most advanced and efficient solar technology, simply creates reusable hydrogen rather than storable electricity.
This may well enable complete long term self sufficiency, given the modern fuel cell works nearly as well on methane as hydrogen.
And it's virtual child's play to convert our own biological waste into bladder stored backup methane.
This hydrogen/backup methane, after powering our homes, can also power our motor vehicles, which could be fuel cell powered electric.
The 72% energy coefficient of the ceramic fuel cell, would make this option the cheapest in the world to run.
Power to weight ratios of electric engines, vastly outperform conventional engines, which can use up to 85% of their available power, just to spin the fly wheel, and drag tons of iron around!
Just as computers and cell phones have become small and vastly more portable, the same miniaturisation may well also apply to fuel cells, which may turn up in lawn mowers, whipper snippers and so on.
And wouldn't a super silent leaf blower, be a boon for the Sunday morning neighbourhood?
The fact that we are talking about methane/hydrogen gas, means that refuelling, with compressed gas, can be accomplished in just minutes, rather than as a much less convenient, overnight battery recharge.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 8 July 2013 4:20:06 PM
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The price of electricity changes every five minutes. it's a matter of supply and demand. Now that qld NSW vic Tas ans SA are all connected and all generators are in the same pool, the only difference is privatisation of retail electricity.
Posted by doog, Friday, 12 July 2013 7:23:00 AM
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