One of the reasons why the Allies won World War 2, was because western scientific intelligence officers broke the "unbreakable" German Enigma codes used by all of the German armed services, and partially broke the Japanese naval and army codes.

This technology allowed the allies to snoop on anybody in the world that they wished. But what they wanted to do was defeat Germany and Japan. Breaking the codes gave the allies an immense advantage over the axis. Exactly the same parallel exists today. Today's scientific officers working for allied intelligence have broken the algorithms that would have allowed the allies to snoop an anybody using the internet. And this traitor Snowdon has given the secret away.

It is a worse case of elitist stupidity than that idiot reporter who let it slip that the yanks were tracking Osama bin Laden through his mobile phone. Had this secret not been revealed, Osama bin Laden might have been killed soon after 9/11, and the entire Afghan war could have been averted. Loose lips don't just sink ships, they can have catastrophic repercussions.

Snowden's act was a monumental act of treason. No wonder the entire western world (including neutral Austria) are now combining to bring this traitor to justice. If the Bolivian president had the brains to understand this, he should not have shot his mouth off and suggested that Snowdon could receive asylum in his banana republic.

It is no wonder that John Pilger feels sorry for traitor Snowden, he himself has become the Lord Haw Haw of the western despising, tertiary educated elites.

LEGO
There are some important differences between the enigma code breakers and Snowden.

1. The allies were at war.
2. The codes were used only against the enemy; Snowden revealed espionage against allies and civilians.
3. The enigma code was use to uncover military secrets; Snowden’ revelations go not only to military but also political and diplomatic secrets.
4. The enigma code was lawful. The secrets Snowden reveals are of arguably unlawful activity. Public officers aware of illegal activity by their employers that is not remediable under due process have in certain circumstances a legal and moral right to act as whistle blowers, and civilised countries have whistle blower protection provisions to allow that to happen.

I think the wrongdoing he has revealed perhaps exceeds the wrongdoing he committed. I accept Snowden has a case to answer, but unfortunately the chance of him getting a fair trial in the USA is looks to be approximately zero

Rhian, the task of codebreaking is ongoing, even in peacetime. Everybody does it. You can bet that even the Australian intelligence services are probably trying to crack the US codes, right now. It is a normal role for intelligence services and it has had outstanding results for the allies, who are the masters at it.

The Washington Conference which limited the number of battleships which each side had prior to WW2 was a triumph for the Americans who broke the Japanese diplomatic code prior to the conference. This gave the entire Japanese strategy away for how they were going to fool the Americans as to what the real tonnages of their ships were. But the US ambassador at the time (I think it was Cordell Hull) initially refused to look at the intelligence data, because he said it was "ungentlemanly".

The task of cracking the German Enigma codes was a joint effort between the French, British and Polish intelligence services prior to WW2, with the Poles initially the leaders. These codes were common not only to the German military, but to their diplomatic corps and business organisations as well. The Enigma machine was initially designed to keep commercial secret safe, and was adopted by the German military and diplomatic corps.

America's entry into WW1 was the result of a code intercept by the British of a German diplomatic message sent to the German ambassador in Mexico City. It has the status of being the most famous and significant code intercept of all time. The message from the Germans in 1917 to the Mexicans was that the Germans would support the Mexicans militarily if the Mexicans invaded the southern half of the USA and kept the US busy so it would not interfere in the war in Europe. This message incensed the Americans and ensured their entry into the war against Germany.

The cracking of codes and he reading of diplomatic and even private messages has always been done and it always will be done by intelligence services. We might lose the next war because of what this traitor has done.

Dear John,

Thanks,

Have you taken you anti-socialist tablet today?

Who is going to look after you when you are left in a nursing home?

Have you ever considered reality or will ideological pseudo-everything see you through?

LEGO
Yes, I concede I probably had a rather Bletchley-centric view of Enigma. I also agree that code-cracking is probably an important and essential part of the spy business. Doubtless some of the outrage of foreign governments whose citizens are being spied on is manufactured.

But Snowden revealed the US government spied on tens of millions of ordinary citizens who are not deemed a particular threat, both in the USA and overseas. There comes a point when the necessary business of spying goes too far, and without whistleblowers we will never know when that boundary has been crossed.

John Pilger is plain & simply wrong on this one. According to one News
One (austrian) airport officer did board the aircraft on Tuesday to find out why it had landed in Vienna reporting technical problems, but "there was no formal inspection", Austrian President Heinz Fischer told Kurier newspaper.

Hi Rhian.

"The spying business" goes "too far" quite routinely. The most famous intelligence intercept of all time was the result of illegal activities by British intelligence. This was the "Zimmerman" message which brought the USA into WW1. The message was so secret that the Germans would not use radio to transmit the message, it was sent through the Swedish and American diplomatic phone system,which the British were illegally tapping.

The breaking of the Japanese diplomatic codes in 1921 was brought about by an illegal organisation set up by the US Army and Navy using slush funds. Even the President of the US and the US Congress was unaware of it's existence. The breaking of the ciphers involved the illegal transfer of diplomatic messages transferred by the US Postal Service, which fully co operated with the US armed forces. The Postal Service not only transferred Japanese diplomatic messages, it also handed over British, French, and Russian diplomatic messages so that the codebreakers could decode them also.

Everybody does it. For heaven's sake, the best way to innoculate your mind against John Pilger and Michael Moore type propaganda is to pick up a history book.

As for "spying on citizens". Western countries have been stupid enough to import people into our countries who wish to bomb us, shoot us, and poison us. I thought that that was what we had an Army, a Navy, and an Air Force for, to keep people like that away from us. If we had kept these people out of our countries we would not be in this mess where our intelligence services have to still do a few naughty things in order to keep us safe. Fortunately, history has proven that these far seeing protectors of our civilisation are still up to the task.

Rhian you say :-
1.The allies were at war.
2. The codes were used only against the enemy; Snowden revealed espionage against allies and civilians.
3. The enigma code was used to uncover military secrets; Snowden’ revelations go not only to military but also political and diplomatic secrets.

And today the Allies are at war also, or hadn’t you noticed? Today, due to foolish immigration policies the enemy we are at war with lives within and communicates via the internet etc. non-stop, to their fellow conspirators within our countries and to their enemy links within countries we are at war with. Therefore the US and Australian Governments have to listen in to civilian networks to protect our people from having their arms and legs blown off in supermarkets or sporting events like Boston,because of the enemy (so called Western citizens) within. So much for multi-culturalism.

Snowden is a traitor and is seen as such by the majority of non-enemy citizens living in our countries. Except for the delusional hippie left.
John Pilger should also be expelled from Western Countries for the traitor and subversive left Wing hippie,(the hippie communes didn’t work John, hello!) academic that he is.

http://tarpley.net/ According to Webster Tarpley both Snowden and Assange are agents of dis-information of the CIA and MOSSAD. Tarpley makes a convincing argument to support his assertions.

ARJAY- http://tarpley.net/ According to Webster Tarpley both Snowden and Assange are agents of dis-information of the CIA and MOSSAD. Tarpley makes a convincing argument to support his assertions.

All the left wing American- bashing haters made complete fools of themselves because nothing
unknown was revealed about America. In other words when all the documents were laid bare
America came out looking pretty clear. There was nothing there that the world didn’t already know.
So now, Webster Tarpley and the rest of them, refusing to admit they were foolish and got it wrong are once again blaming America(CIA) of a conspiracy to fool everyone using Assange and Snowden.
Talk about twist and squirm.
Admit it Webster and all you other love to Accuse America lot out there, you were wrong and look like dills with no cause.

Wrong, wrong, and dreaming up another conspiracy theory just proves how you twist everything
to blame America. Might be better if you looked at why you are focused on this American obssesion.

Ten to one CHERFUL, Arjay faces Mecca when he prays.