Killarney - Firstly, ‘long-term unemployed’ is a misnomer. It’s rare for a person receiving unemployment benefits to never ever work. Almost all long-term dole recipients are engaged in intermittent casual labour, which is offset against their benefits.

I couldn't imagine 'surviving' on less than $250 per week, especially if one has to pay anything in rent, mortgage or finance repayments.

Killarney - Secondly, many long-term unemployed people are suffering from mild to serious personality disorders (e.g. borderline disorder and OCD) and neurological and emotional problems (e.g. Asperger syndrome, depression and chronic anxiety). Although they do not technically qualify as ‘disabled’, their ability to hold down a steady job is compromised.

It would also be correct to say long term employment itself would inevitably result in all manner of psychiatric & physical disorders

Killarney - Thirdly, many have little choice but to live in areas where unemployment is high, because they cannot afford the high rents and living costs in cities and large towns. Others may have no choice but to live in areas where there are no jobs to suit their skills or experience, e.g. single parents subject to Family Court rulings.

Given the employment situation in the greater Brisbane and Gold Coast with a zillion ex-public servants on the streets thanks to General Disaster, it may actually be preferable to live elsewhere. The typical bogan level job advertized on Jobsearch draws up to 600 applications, consequently an awful lot of jobseekeers are wasting their time in the aforementioned location.

to be continued

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Killarney - Fourthly, many are too old. If you find yourself over 50 and unemployed, it’s very difficult to find employment, even casual employment. If you are over 60 it is almost impossible. Now that the pension age has been increased from 60 to 62 under Howard, and from 62 to 67 under Rudd, many unemployed people over 60 are caught in a catastrophic limbo, in which they are too young to retire and too old to get a job.

These days, 40 is generally regarded as over then hill, down the other side and one foot in the grave. I'm personally aware of heaps of very highly qualified over 40 Australians who have not had even one job interview in over 2000 applications. Its a fact of life in 2013 that few Australians in the 40plus set will EVER see another paypacket after leaving a job for whatever reason, the only exceptions being hopelessly menial occupations like driving a cab. On the other hand, there is always the gubmunt sponsored NEIS scheme even if, as the name implies, a modicum of 'enterprise' is necessary.

What world do you lot inhabit, It can't be the one I live in. I can understand, praxidice, that those ex bureaucrats might have a problem. Everyone knows that it only takes a few months in the "public service" to make people unemployable in the real world.

Ageing middle managers do have trouble I've heard, However for those who want to actually work, a few of case studies.

Neighbors kid 19, chucked in a mechanics apprenticeship at a car dealership to do the same thing in the army. He had 3 months to wait for sign up, so looked for some work. With in a few days he found 3 days a week laboring with a plasterer.

The kid's a worker. He was on full time after a week, being paid $1100, & the boss was begging him to stay, & do an apprenticeship. The 2 dole bludger kids few doors down has the road have been unemployed, [with a bit of cash in hand] for 2 years.

Two mates of mine had a 2 man truck body building business. It is heavy work, & with one 58 & one 61 they were finding it a bit hard. They wanted an apprentice to train, & take some of the load. They had trouble getting any takers.

The first 2 found the work too hard, & lasted less than a month each.
The 3Rd was a good kid, & doing well, but was coming from another town 60Km away. he was head hunted by a similar business, in his own town.

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With the work too heavy they closed the business, & went looking for some work. The older one has no qualifications, but is one of those people who has knocked around, & can do anything very well. He found a couple of days a week with a welfare agency, doing work in pensioners homes, to help keep them out of nursing homes.

They then had him do 3 months while another fellow went on long service leave. They found out how good he was & quickly gave him full time, 2 days here & 3 on the Gold Coast. Not many would be as good as this bloke, but any competent home maintenance person could do the job.

The other one found a couple of days welding for a small fabrication business near by. In the same way, they soon had him on full time, doing things they previously did not do.

A middle management type lost his job when the branch closed. With in a week he was working full time for a hydroponics lettuce grower, who has been unable to find reliable workers for a year or more.

My youngest daughter has just come back from 2 years in Darwin. It took 4 phone calls for her to have 2 jobs to chose from.

A local farmer gave up the struggle & took a job with an asphalt laying company. With in 5 months they had added another full plant with him running it.

Some of these jobs may not be exactly great jobs, but they pay the bills, & keep people off welfare, if they want to work, so please no garbage about no jobs available.

Hasbeen, i am for a very tough attitude to long term unemployed, if they dont meet the criteria they should not get benefits.

All i am saying is that there is likley to be adverse social effects from just giving them nothing; we do not live in easy employment times so we need smart ways to develop mutual obligation that is both minimal in cost (bureacracy) and effective.

Again, i am sure that most of them would adhere if bar is raised, but i would never support no assistance at all

Dear Hasbeen

Good arguments, however the cases identified involved people possessed of a hint of 'enterprise'. Certainly SOME can find their way through the unemployment jungle and a few even prosper. For what its worth, my story is essentially comparable, over qualified, over experienced, over aged, over the moronic system & consequently near unemployable. That said, with a number of income streams, none of which are individually 'exciting', collectively mean giving a rats is optional. Unfortunately there are far too many poor unfortunates in society who for one reason or another lack the necessaries to survive in this brave new world.

Question is how best to deal with the typical Woodridge / Logan bogan whose whole mission in life is low end factory drudgery five days a week & spending everything they earn on booze, cancer sticks & keeping a heap of crap Falcadore mobile ?? Once the factory employer decides its time to move their marginally profitable operation offshore as so many have done, what is the fate of said bogan employees ?? Clearly they are never going to start a business, and even if they did it would go belly-up within the first day. You are at least partly correct in suggesting younger people have at least a fighting chance. My biggest concern is with the rapidly growing ranks of wrinklies who really need to 'work' for another twenty odd years. I did some time in labour hire placement yonks ago and even then it was near impossible to convince a wet behind the ears HR type to even consider a very highly qualified 40y/o. These days its even worse with higher wages & cheap 457 visa labour.

Whilst I don't know how low level workers could get by on lower wages, my suspicion is that one of the key requirements to fixing the job market in Australia will be significant reduction in wages. Obviously dramatic slashing of gubmunt squandering & consequent axing of tax impositions would help, but gubmunts generally being the train wrecks they are, I can't imagine anything so enlightened in this lifetime.