I do not understand why any discussion of poverty focuses almost exclusively on 'give more money', of course that will temporarily lift people from poverty, it is, to me, an easy unsustainable solution. It is not as if we do not have the intellectual capacity to derive another solution surely?

In the past 30 odd years, millions of people have been lifter, permanently, from poverty. Providing jobs and opportunity appear to me to be one other solution. In china, India and Africa millions have been assisted through the simple expediency of affording cheap reliable power, free trade zones etc have made huge differences.

Consider the consequences of 'developing the north of Australia, eliminate job stifling regulation, tax concessions, workplace flexibility, external financing arrangements and eliminating trade restrictions would revolutionise the place. The failure of the gas hub project at Broom is a typical example of perpetuating poverty in the region. Eliminating restrictive business hours and crippling award rates eliminate many from getting work at weekends, I could go on of course, but you get my drift I am sure.

Regulations, both green and red tape stifle the goal of alleviating poverty.... It is so simple people, human societies have been getting out of poverty for hundreds of years, it is what EVERYONE wants for themselves and their children.

That sounds like a plan Molly. A plan that is to encourage more Bludgers.

First of all I really doubt many, even our Bludgers are living on $35 a WEEK, but it would be a good trick if you could train them to. Save the tax payer a fortune, which I'm sure they could use more profitably.

Secondly if you want to get the public on side with even more handouts, you'll have to start getting rid of the Bludgers. Bludgers like those around here who will do a day, or even 2 for a local turf or dairy farmer for $175 in hand a day. Ask them to do more & they just laugh. A couple of these days & their disposable income is greater than many fully employed.

Give the bludgers even more & many of those low paid employed are going to say stuff this, & refuse to work for what they earn.

They are already becoming like my neighbor in the Wide Bay area. Of course he was a pom, so already trained in their union attitude to work. He had been on the dole for a few years, & was always crying poor. A couple of people suggested he should take one of the jobs that the Childers sugar mill were trying to fill.

His answer was "what, come off the benefits for just 6 months work? not bloody likely". As a tradesman, he would have earned about 40% more in that 6 months that the years dole income, but he was a confirmed bludger, just like 10s of thousands of them.

So dear lady, when you have got all this type off our backs, you are welcome to ask about raising the dole for the genuine, usually over 55 cases. You should have no problem funding it from the savings, & the extra tax income from the now employed bludgers

to many in the poverty industry with vested interest to eliminate it. Look at those eco terrorist on the sea shepherd. how many are considered 'poor ' while stealing from the taxpayer?

Before China accepted a free market as the basis of it's now burgeoning economy, 800,000 lived in real dire poverty.
Real dire poverty, translating to incomes of $1.25 a day or less, and routinely going to bed hungry, and with a nutrition shortfall, that meant something like a common cold, could wipe out a family, or most of a village.
Today, the real poor in China number just 200,000; and, the wealthier middle class, continues to expand.
Albeit, many now struggle to maintain previous standards, due to rising labour, food and rent costs!
Even so, it has been economic growth and economic growth alone that has transformed China, and places like Taiwan, Singapore, Southern Korea, war ravaged and basically bankrupt Japan, Germany and many parts of completely devastated Europe.
China was fortunate that its banks were all Govt owned and controlled, and therefore was virtually quarantined from the GFC!
We for our part, didn't invest very heavily in worthless derivatives, and were somewhat similarly protected.
China's massive economic growth came even as she basically depopulated; meaning, we can grow our economy, without ramping up our population numbers.
We can put some real growth into our economy, just by building more houses.
We can do that by returning affordability to the market.
We can do that by massively improving the Govt spend on Govt housing.
The new estates/high rises, can't be allowed to become ghettos full of the poor, but incorporate a very broad spectrum of the wider community!
Rapid rail links would promote just that.
Finally, we need to be able to afford and fund the changes we need to put much more growth and entrepreneurial enterprise into our communities, and an economic model that derives all its real growth/burgeoning prosperity, from investing in our own people and their better ideas, rather than entirely unproductive parasites.
To that end, we also need to accept the need for quite massive reforms, simplification in our tax system and industrial laws; continue to roll out the NBN; and develop publicly owned power systems, that are both carbon free and cheaper than coal!
Rhrosty.

The dole is not enough to live on, and could be improved, to say 80% of the average wage, if limited to just six months? If as part of the compact, we also remove unfair dismissals!
If those who wouldn't work in an iron lung are able to be moved on, without delay or involving a veritable army of lawyers, and the courts?
Employers might have enough new confidence to employ/try out, more new employees!
And if we are smart enough to reform our tax system to get the domestic economy humming along, a six moth dole payment period, at the higher rate, would be more than enough for those genuinely seeking work; even if that then compels some to move, relocate or retrain!
There could be a case made for extending and extending again, a much more generous dole, if recipients were indeed retraining and demonstrably gaining relevant new job ready skills! And the new future high tech high reward economy may well mean that the average employee, may need to retrain/update their skill set, several times during their entire working life!
I also think we need to examine who does that training and at what cost to the recipient.
I believe, we ought to replace many of the private players, who may well be generating significant profits, but far too few graduates/apprentices; with many more significantly improved and much more comprehensive and successful TAFE colleges!
Rhrosty.

Dear Molly,

As discussed on a recent similar thread, many of the unemployed are unemployable. The unemployable are a product of a failing education system that has been progressively socialized and dumbed down by people who have lots of answers but don’t understand the questions.

I think the real tragedy is that there are still people with influence who are prepared to sacrifice large sections of our community upon the altar of socialism. Those proposing an increase in funding to maintain the status quo of so many are repugnant.

To socialists it is about appearing to be compassionate through spending more public funds. To conservatives it is about finding and applying real solutions in order to assist both the unemployed and the unemployable to become productive members of our society. By so doing they can once again hold their heads high and grow their self esteem.

It does no credit to The Australian Institute to attempt to draw attention away from the damage your political mantra has already inflicted on our society in general and those without employment in particular.

I do wish your institute was an elected body, that way we could dump the lot of you along with the current government in September. Then you would really begin to understand what it means to be unemployed and just how awful it is to be paid to stay that way.

The $35 a week cited for the allowance is an error - should be $35 a day, I think

My, apart from Rhrosty, the nasties are out in force today.
The purpose of old style "education" that I was subjected to in the early 60's was to teach the pupils/students WHAT to think. And to create robotized conformists who "knew" their place in the social pecking order. And who, in the case of males, would march of "faithfully" to be slaughtered in the never-ending imperial wars, of which John WINSTON Howard was a fully paid up enthusiast.

It was certainly not purposed to stimulate or encourage free enquiry in to any topic including, and especially religion. Or any kind of creative imagination or artistic expression.

Its purpose was to create the ordinary dreadfully sane one-dimensional obedient every person.
Litte boxes made out of ticky-tacky - all the SAME.

Classic works from and about the post-war years up to the early 60's which summed up the situation.
One Dimensional Man Marcuse
The Hidden Persuaders Packard
Captains of Consciousness Ewen
Culture Against Man Jules Henry

And for life in the 21st century
This Little Kiddy Went To Market Beder
Anything featured on The Global Rearch Project in Canada
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com
the blog/website of
Andrew Gavin Marshall.

Yes, $35 a week was an error, which I've corrected above. It is now $35 per day.

Pity you were too dumb to absorb that education Daffy. If you had managed to, you might even be a happy little duck today, rather than a miserable bitching quacker.

You see ducky, if you just let it flow around you, absorb what is good, [& much is], & ignore the rest, but quietly, you can do your own thing, with their blessing. They may think you are a bit of an eccentric, but they are tolerated, & even admired

Fight kick scream & bitch, & everyone knows you're a misfit, everywhere. As misfits spread their misery every where they go, & are best avoided. So lighten up, treat the world as an ant colony provided for your personal amusement, & BE HAPPY.

Gee Daffey, I and all my mates went through the same education system and guess what? None of those tewible things happened to us.

teach the pupils/students WHAT to think. And to create robotized conformists who "knew" their place in the social pecking order
Daffy Duck,
Two things fundamentally wrong with that sentence. Pupils were taught to think & the robots are the new educated intellectuals.
You obviously came from a hippie family & you missed out on a lot of schooling but don't despair, there's TAFE where you can get taught by experts & get a certificate in anything in just four evening classes..

The issue of unemployable people is certainly a very real one, however quite a few of the real deadbeats seem to find their way into politics. I recall a conversation I had with the dying duck, who told me 'I didn't get into politics for the money, I could earn many times my political salary in the private sector'. Needless to say, the clown was not impressed when I advised him that no employer in possession of their senses would be stupid enough to employ him. There are however far too many highly skilled people in this country whose unforgiveable sin is they are more than 40 years old. Meanwhile the parasitic CEO element who expect to be paid ten or twenty million pa crap on about skill shortages when their object is to import staff from third world countries on 457 visas & pay them a fraction of the money that Australians would cost.

what's wrong with requiring the long term unemployed to either do so many hours of community work a week, like in nursing homes especially, or if not, 2 years of national service?

Living on the backs of the taxpayers should be out of the question: everyone should pitch in and do their fair share: it's called "nation building."

Fair crack of the whip, mate!

community work a week, like in nursing homes especially, or if not, 2 years of national service?
SHRODE,
Careful there, I've been proposing that for a long time now but the Lefties are firing the Flak every time. They just don't seem to like the idea of people having to pull at least some of their weight.
I agree re the unemployable but that does in no way infer they can't work. Even the most qualified village idiots can pick up rubbish or dig with pick & shovel and, isn't there a lot of that to be done. Instead of maintaining expensive machinery the unemployables can make up their mind if they want to learn to get a job or not. The alternative to not getting a job is to do menial work. At least that's what I expect for my Tax Dollar.

what's wrong with requiring the long term unemployed to either do so many hours of community work a week, like in nursing homes especially, or if not, 2 years of national service?

What indeed ! The fact that a proper 'work for the dole' hasn't been instituted is a damning indictment on gubmunts generally. Mind you there would need to be some kind of oversight by sentient beings & that breed is pretty thin on the ground in Centrelink / DEWR. More to the point is number of people on Newstart due to the 'skills shortage' male bovine dropping perpetuated on the sheeple. There is not, nor ever has been, a shortage of 'skills' in this country, the ONLY thing in short supply is under 40s tradespeople prepared to work for less than award conditions. Discrimination laws have done diddley squat to prevent employers (shock horror) from 'discriminating and / or importing cheap labour on 457 visas. With a bit of intelligence & ingenuity, Australia could EASILY utilized the unemployed & have four lane freeways from east to west & north to south, a defence force second to none, border protection to die for (NO illegal migration), agricultural development that would shame the israelis & a half-way switched on workforce that would DEMAND accountability. Mind you the latter is sufficient to send the wind up any of the bloodsucking parasite political species.

There are 2 CEA offices with some 12 staff & also a Jobfind office with quite a few staff. Now, we're looking at a community of about 3500 where 90% of jobs are public service.
Councils say they have not enough funding to employ more people. So, anyone still agree with Labor's legacy ? Many do because they complain bitterly about the Premier's cut-backs.

The reason councils bitch about lack of funds is because they squander most of their revenue on overpaid / underworked half million dollar CEOs, propping up lost causes eg the bicycle hire scheme in Brisbane, Tom Tate cruise ship terminal & the Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast etc etc. As with all levels of politics, we have inept & unaccountable dumbclucks who could never survive in the real world making decisions about other peoples money.

Tackling poverty or helping the poor has been a powerful political argument for those people who want to increase government spending and tax. They are the ones who want to tell people what to do, therefore obtain a sense of power. Power is really what they are after. Our society has produced too many experts who are given the power to order people around. They treat people like children thus have very strong paternalistic mentality. Unfortunately, they know less than one percent of the society as Thomas Sowell from Hoover Institutes said.

Tackling poverty is such a intangible topic. Who are in poverty? It is a mobile society. People who are poor today may not be poor tomorrow. They come out of poverty by working hard and taking their own responsibility, rather than being fed. If there is an increase of people in poverty, it is because they have been encouraged to stay out of the workplace by our welfare system. In addition, the minimum wage policy and other red taps have prevented people from creating jobs.

It is blind for those people who compare Australia with European countries. Europe is in recession, thanks to it's generous welfare system and big government. Do we want to get down to this dead end? Let people decide what to do and not to be governed by experts and elites.

Our public servants are so bl00dy incompetent that we should sack the lot of them.

I was once the "development coordinator" of a local sports club. We had a picnic race track, donated by a large landholder years before, in rather dilapidated condition, along with a horse & pony club, a soccer club, a little athletics club & a cricket club using the same 150 acres.

We had been given an old railway house, which we had transported & set up as a club house, canteen & toilet area, & were doing a lot of other work.

I was given 4 men with community service orders to do some of this work. The only problem, I would turn up, the men would turn up, but the public servant in charge of them would not.

I could not tell these men to do anything, that was the bureaucrats job. No bureaucrat, & they sat on their butts as community service.

That woman, who turned up for only one in 6 appointments was still in the job 2 years later, despite numerous complaints.

We gave up on help, & did it ourselves, & public servants wonder why they get no support from the public when sacked.

Hasbeen, that question of uninsured & unregistered cars.
Saw an episode tonight of Police Interceptors and they said one in
twenty cars are uninsured and or have their MOT out of date.

Cheers

Our society has produced too many experts who are given the power to order people around.

Power Corrupts

Power attracts the corruptible

Some pigs are more equal than others

Personally I have contempt for any human with uncontrolled authority because they are invariably little tin gods & inevitably corrupt. Rather than attempt to put band-aids on the broken democratic political model, I suggest anarchy would be a viable alternative. If 'mqnagement' is deemed necessary, it could be achieved by way of a voluntary / unpaid panel of people, none of whom have individual power, appointed for a strictly limited time (eg 12 months) with extremely robust checks & balances including immediate capital punishment for consorting with lawyers / developers / lobbyists.

Tackling lack of affordability of appropriate secure housing would be a start to tackling poverty. If less welfare money was spent on "housing support workers" and service providers and more money put into affordable housing especially accessibility to low cost land instead of the current selloff to legal migrants there would be less demands for high welfare handouts. Housing support agencies need to stop asking for more money for funding bon productive service providers and start asking for more solutions to the housing crisis

Molly,

I haven't read what the others said but I got 0.2% of the budget when I did the calculations a few months back but maybe I was using a larger figure as I was using $1.55T on Stephen Koukoulas's say so rather than the current I think $1.52T

Either way its less than chicken feed. I'd really like to know who Gillard's current economic advisors are.