Hi JK Jardine,

Fair questions.

Re: “appeal to absent authority …”

Pretty sure they are all present, JK. Happy to provide names. They include Juan Jose Daboub, Paul Krugman, John Quiggin, Glenn Stevens, Joseph Stiglitz, Rodney Tiffin, John Edwards, Malcolm Edey, Tim Harcourt, Guy Debelle, Scott Haslem, Nicolas Herault and the economists who work on OECD papers.

Re: “… the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc.”

Yes, this can be a fallacy. But not always. And not necessarily. It is a matter of sound data, careful analysis and clear thinking.

Re: “There’s a need to demonstrate causality, not mere sequence or correlation.”

Yes and no. Washing hands after handling putrid matter was demonstrated to prevent illness centuries before causality was proven. No?

Sometimes where causality cannot be proven absolutely it is safest to go with best fit or most satisfactory explanation.

Re: “All that you have said pre-supposes the validity of Keynesian theory.”

No, not really, JK. Isn’t it the other way around? The experience of Australia validates Keynesian theory after the event. The one and only nation that went in hard, early and well-targeted with a Keynesian intervention turned out to be the one and only nation that averted two negative quarters, wholesale job losses and a blow-out of debt and despair.

You don't need to have presupposed the validity of the theory to acknowledge afterwards - perhaps ruefully - that it does appear to have been validated.

Re: “We can’t make society richer by digging holes and filling them in again …”

Correct. But we can certainly enrich society by insulating buildings, providing infrastructure for schools, housing for the needy, faster internet connections, alternative energy generation, improved roads, rail and ports and so on.

Pretty sure this is the approach Stiglitz is defending. No?

Cheers, AA

JO'N.

Logical fallacy.

Do you affirm that earthquakes make society richer? That destroying whole cities makes us as a society wealthier? That's what you're defending. You need to deal with the actual issues; your personalisation of the argument to me only proves that don't understand the issues of economic theory and have no better argument but fallacy.

Jardine K. Jardine : I think you need to do a crash course on finance.
And I see now that this thread has degenerated into the usual slanging match between party ideologies. Well keep on arranging the deckchairs Titanic crew.

HOW BANKS SECRETLY CREATE MONEY
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/dollar-deception.php
It has been called “the most astounding piece of sleight of hand ever invented.” The creation of money has been privatised, usurped from Congress by a private banking cartel. Most people think money is issued by fiat by the government, but that is not the case.

JKJ

"You need to deal with the actual issues"---OK what are the actual issues?

RobertLePage,

"The creation of money has been privatised, usurped from Congress by a private banking cartel." That statement is perhaps misleading in the Australian context, banks have always created money. Banks didn't so much 'usurp' the function of creating money, previous governments surrendered an important component of monetary policy by eliminating SRDs.

I'll admit I'm rather nostalgic for the golden days of Keysianism and bank regulation.

our family has been living in the Philippines these past 5 years, but we get the Australian news on Channel 62 and are amazed at how well Australia has been doing. Yes, Australia and Poland have weathered the financial crisis quite well, but from what I've heard, it was Wayne Swan's decision to treble the tax free threshold that helped ordinary taxpayers, but a lot more could be done.

For instance, negative gearing: why continue with this sort of nonsense?
Also, fringe benefits taxation: why not raise it from the pathetically small amount to at least 5%?

And why not create a sovereign wealth fund, as Norway did, where its average income is $48,000 compared to Canada's average of $36,000?

How did Norway get it so right and we just can't seem to get our heads - and hearts - around that?

Amazing how much JKJ sounds like the old Peter Hume? Not a past life perhaps? Equally combative, self-assured, hates anything to do with government, taxation, regulation or welfare, or banking and industry 'oligarchs'; and wriggly as a cut snake.

Alan Austin,

I have to admit your evidence for Aus' rating at No 1 is compelling, and I can find no fault with it. However, you would have to admit that many of these positive factors (healthy economy, welfare, universal healthcare, productive base, private wealth, investment environment, etc), and the gearing to accommodate them - including relevant banking regulation, loan conditions, and a fortuitous mining boom - were already in place prior to the GFC? And there was a healthy surplus to facilitate at least the start of the Rudd stimulus.
Still, the stimulus worked, but who should we credit for this visionary, expeditious action - Kevin Rudd or Wayne Swan?

In spite of your healthy argument, I still have a difficulty attributing our well-being entirely to the Rudd/Gillard governments, or in finding any significant fault with the Howard government. And, since then, with Gillard taking credit for CO2 reduction as being related to the carbon tax - when at least part of any reduction would have to be attributed to the Pink Batts and Solar Energy subsidies included as part of the prior economic stimulus facilities. Cause and effect? Not quite clear cut?
Still, your portrayal of the Aus economy is very heartening.
Question now is what shocks may we yet expect from the continuing troubles elsewhere? As well as some troubling signs in our own industrial resilience - given some recent major closures?
And what of our exposure to interest rate and foreign exchange Derivatives? $19 Trillion? (Many times our gross national product?)
Not quite out of the woods, yet, but at least a reliable compass?
And, with Abbott and Hockey at the helm? Or is your bet on Gillard?

>Is it true Julie Bishop is a shadow frontbencher?<
I suspect this is a rhetorical question, but Julie Bishop is Deputy Opposition Leader and Shadow Minister for Foreign Relations.