The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The lesson of history is that vigilance must be eternal > Comments

The lesson of history is that vigilance must be eternal : Comments

By Julie Bishop, published 21/2/2013

After the devastation of World War 1, successive governments failed to invest sufficiently in our defence capability while coping with the ravages of the Great Depression.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
The extent of Julie's knowledge? :-)
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 21 February 2013 9:06:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Erm, is anyone else getting a dead link from this page?
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 21 February 2013 9:21:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
so is this a general moan..."labour is bad" or are you talking policy?
Is the new mindless rant by the libs "interest rates will always be lower, defence spending will always be higher"

The US spends more money of defence then the next top 5 contries combined. Yet they don't feel safe.

How much should we spend Julie?
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 21 February 2013 11:02:57 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Come on Julie.

This is basic undergraduate level stuff.

How about putting some grunt and effort into these pieces by calling what are the issues that would require us being prepared with greater defence spending.

You say there are no threats on horizon, but why are tensions increasing in our region?
Posted by Chris Lewis, Thursday, 21 February 2013 11:48:34 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If you CLICK ON "ALL" you will get the text for this article.

Looks like a glitch meant there appeared to be no text for this article - but that is probably due to a blank page 1.

@Kenny - Yes its very true "The US spends more money of defence then the next top 5 contries combined. Yet they don't feel safe." Shows how subjective (feelings of insecurity driven) defence issues are.

People in the US may still be worried about a 9/11 scale terrorist attack recurring. Also the US military, defence industry and politicians argue that massive defence spending - at least enough to beat the next two most powerful militaries (China and Russia) is necessary to keep the US safe.

On the Australian defence budget a Coalition government could not easily and won't draw money from social programs to fund defence. Coalitions Governments always "talk tough" on Defence and Security but consistently do no more than Labor.

Same goes for the Carbon Tax and NBN - the Coalition - if its voted in - will say it is locked into policies Labor-Greens started.

Parties can be relied on to indulge in the Blame-Game. We can expect few good and original ideas.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 21 February 2013 11:52:05 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Julie states: "While there is no obvious threat on our horizon, even a cursory study of our own history will show how quickly the security situation can change."

Really? We have the US shifting its hegemonic intentions to the Asia-Pacific area; China and Japan are at loggerheads, likewise, the Spratley Islands are a highly disputed area of ownership between China, Malaysia, the Philippines and various others. Additionally Indonesia continues to project influence into PNG for its own ends, US and European interests are shifting into Africa chasing ever depleting resources and India and Pakistan (basically a failed state) continue to push each other to the brink of nuclear war over disputed issues between themselves. We won’t even mention the problems closer to home in the Pacific (Fiji).

Add in the continuing disaster in Afghanistan, and why we are there still is completely beyond me. Include the troubles growing in Mali, Libya, Syria, Israel/West Bank and other areas in the broader Middle East and the growing troubles in the European periphery then yes Julie I can see we have no obvious threats on our horizon.

Talk about a missing link.

Perhaps Julie should make herself a little more aware of what is really happening, mainly due to an ever growing population facing a global per-capita decline in living standards world-wide. Maybe then she can revisit this 'junk' post and revise her myopic view of what is really occurring globally.

If this is the purported future Foreign Minister of Australia and her thinking, then god help us all.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 21 February 2013 1:35:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Always amusing to read the comments of the armchair critics.
How about a challenge?
I look forward to a contribution from Geoff of Perth, Chris Lewis and others on the same topic with a similar word length.
Rather than casting juvenile insults, please post an article of greater insight and quality, and allow others to judge your work.
It should not take too much time for people of your obvious superior intellect?
If you are unable to rise to that challenge please at least engage in mature debate about the issues and refrain from schoolyard taunts.
Posted by JonSwift, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:00:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Julie Bishop is just as entitled as anyone to be an amateur historian.

History is universal and it is far better than any TV soapie or film. Its got everything one could want in a good story: war, romance, intrigue, politics, etc., etc., etc.

Good on her for having a wider interest outside of her job.

My only adverse comment is that her history writing tends to be very insipid and ordinary. I hope this is not an indication of what she will be like in the new Liberal cabinet after the September election.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:18:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@JonSwift

Try this one http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7401 - written almost five years before this week's Four Corners' reprise on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Chris Lewis also writes good stuff.

Note also that Julie has speechwriters and other researchers who probably wrote today's article. Her researcher's article was not bad on history but lamentable on current strategic estimates and budget realities.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:41:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
One only has to look at the enormous amount of wasted resources that we have poured into Iraq and Afghanistan to realise the futility of Coalition in particular, but Labor policy as well.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:42:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The price of liberty is indeed eternal vigilance.

And I am watching, you better believe that I am watching.

Our of interest, is there any historical correlation between the size of a countries military (or military budget) and their citizens relative freedom?
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:48:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Borrowing from a Beatles song - poor Julie hasnt noticed that the lights have changed.
Which is to say that we now live in a completely different world than that of the World Wars, the American war against the people of Vietnam and even the first Gulf War.

Furthermore the people themselves are now the primary target in almost all wars. This process began with the American Civil War.

The old warrior culture of face to face combat is essentially obsolete.We now have 24/7 cyber warfare, plus remote controlled drones are going to change everything. Electronics has its own cyber-speed and momentum that brings us to the point at which these technologies are in a condition of uncontrollable runaway feedbacks. Unintended consequences are now the new normal - almost instantaneously.

Such "smart" weapons mean that war cant be played in real time because old time warriors cant respond appropriately and quickly enough, so warriors are no longer going to be a heroic class.
Warfare is beginning to displace itself into other forms and supracultural domains. First it displaces itself into teenage gangs, soccer matches and riots, and retribalized genocide in bosnia and Rwanda.

Patriarchal "culture" is disintegrating via the sheer force/momentum of its technologies. We can watch the disintegration on TV - stay "tuned" for the news! Looked at from the larger perspective of the end of the second millenia, there is no way that patriarchal "culture" is going to survive,let alone evolve into a more benign form. It will perish from its own violent contradictions. Warfare will, and already has, become a self-destructive balkanization of Civilization - or whats even left of it in 2013.

And of course the lying rodent and the coalition of the killing speeded the process of world-wide cultural disintegration up by many degrees by their Shock & Awe invasion of Iraq. An invasion which inevitably created all kinds of unintended consequences.

But then again so did both of the World Wars - inevitably.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 21 February 2013 2:52:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jon Swift,

It is not about supposed superior intellect. I dont believe in such arrogrant b.s terms as most policy research work comes down to hard work weighing up pros and cons of certain policy trends.

Yes good on Julie Bishop for contributing to OLO, but i think the foreign policy issues facing Australia are quite serious and deserve much greater attention and analysis.

As for my own efforts, if i write soemthing poor, and I probably do, i also expect criticism.

As a reader of articles, and a concerned Australian, i am entitled to my opinion.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Thursday, 21 February 2013 3:34:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The destruction caused by World War I, and the fact that World war II finished off that destructive process is the template at the root of these references. References which give a very sobering assessment of the state of the collective human world in 2013.
The first essay (Open Letter) was written in response to the Kosovo crisisat the request of a high ranking UNHCR diplomat - it was reworked in response to Sept 11.
http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/peace_law/index.html

Eventually the themes of the above essay, and much more too resulted in the publication of this book
http://www.ispeace723.org
Further elaborations are available here:
http://www.dabase.org/p2anthro.htm
http://www.beezone.com/news.html
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 21 February 2013 4:06:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@Geoff of Perth. Agree completely. Let us assume for a moment that the incoming Coalition government doubles "defence" expenditure, either in absolute terms or as a percentage of GDP.

How precisely does this make Australia "safer". Ms Bishop is as usual silent on the key details. Let us further assume that China decides to incorporate Australia into its sphere of influence. Would a doubling, tripling, quadrupling of the defence budget make the slightest difference? Of course not. If Australia is to survive the hypothetical hostile intentions of a foreign power such as China it could only do so with the assistance of a great and powerful ally such as the US.

Whether or not the US actually came to our assistance would depend on their assessment of whether or not Australia staying in the US camp outweighed Australia moving into the Chinese camp.

Either way our level of defence expenditure is largely irrelevant. We could never defeat a great power without the help of another great power. The money Ms Bishop's colleagues propose spending to ensure we are "ready" (although she won't say how or how much) is therefore largely a waste. It would be better spent on the neglected infrastructure that enable Costello to create his fabled surpluses.
Posted by James O'Neill, Thursday, 21 February 2013 4:26:57 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In 1913 it was President Woodrow Wilson who signed away the right of Congress to create new money from nothing to equal the growth of the US economy.Within a few short years these international banksters brought on WW1 and financed both sides of this war for profit and power.Pres Wilson was later to lament his decision to give such power to a private few.

This greed by the banking military industrial complex put Germany into debt salvery via war reparations, which enabled the rise of Hitler to counter their oppression.

Right now in the USA we see these same forces bringing in Bush's Patriot Act,Obama's Preventative Dentention,Legalised Assassination of suspected Terrorists,National Defence Authorisation Act which also negates Habeas Corpus thus giving the US Military absolute power over Western Nations.These laws to counter terrorism Julie, make us their target.

It was Prescott Bush( George's Grandfather) who was on the board of the Union Bank that laundered Nazi money.This bank was closed by the US Govt.Many Nazis ended up as scientists and officials in the US Govt.Our Catholic Church assisted many of these Nazis to escape justice.

Whose side are you on Julie Bishop? Are you on the side of feedom and democracy or the financial terrorists who have stolen our super and savings by creating money from nothing? None of these financial terrorists have faced justice yet most people in this country have lost half of their savings.It was no accident.

Prof William K Black said that 90% of the Fannie May and Freddie Mac loans were fraudulant yet none have been charged.These loans were on sold to our super funds as safe investments.Why are not the Coalition and Labor mounting a class action on behalf of us to get back what is rightfully ours?
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 22 February 2013 12:51:50 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
You say there are no threats on horizon, but why are tensions increasing in our region?
Chris Lewis,
I don't really see a threat on the horizon either but I see & strongly feel a severe threat from within this country & what's worse it is of it's own making.
Posted by individual, Friday, 22 February 2013 5:54:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
How much do we spend on Peace?
It is always dangerous to have enemies and the USA with its strange foreign policy will never feel safe. Killing people around the world does not make them any friends and only increases their number of enemies. Australia by condoning the killing of thousands of civilians each year by the US does not make any friends.
Why not have a Department of Peace and try and seek alternatives to war?
Posted by askari, Monday, 25 February 2013 12:54:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy